|
|
Post by wapentake on Jul 15, 2023 16:19:09 GMT
It would help if you knew more factually.and remembered this is the mind zone so no I don’t support Starmer and my brains fine thanks You really are falling for this populist nonsense aren't you? Making it tougher for people to send their children to private schools is not going to universally increase the standard of education for all. The problem is not the "top 1%", the problem is that a large amount of the other 99% would vote down any increase in taxes to pay for better education for all. WE HAVE ONE OF THE LOWEST TAX BURDENS IN THE WEST... that is the source of our funding problem. Stop repeating populist nonsense and make a case for universal tax increases so that we can raise the standard of our public services... because that is THE ONLY ANSWER. But that’s not what you said in your original post is it so you move the goalposts |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Jul 15, 2023 18:18:51 GMT
You really are falling for this populist nonsense aren't you? Making it tougher for people to send their children to private schools is not going to universally increase the standard of education for all. The problem is not the "top 1%", the problem is that a large amount of the other 99% would vote down any increase in taxes to pay for better education for all. WE HAVE ONE OF THE LOWEST TAX BURDENS IN THE WEST... that is the source of our funding problem. Stop repeating populist nonsense and make a case for universal tax increases so that we can raise the standard of our public services... because that is THE ONLY ANSWER. But that’s not what you said in your original post is it so you move the goalposts Nope, I said it is a populist policy for the brain dead... and went further to explain why. It amazes me how the people that can see how the right blames problems on immigrants / benefits scrougers, are blind to the left doing the same with "the rich". Too much finger pointing, and not enough looking in a mirror. You said it yourself, private schools are a small minority, so explain how punishing them drags up the state schools? The problem is THE MAJORITY do not want to pay the taxes necessary to fund world-beating education. You would have to be the village idiot to believe we can improve things by "making the rich pay a little more". |
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Jul 15, 2023 18:23:03 GMT
But that’s not what you said in your original post is it so you move the goalposts Nope, I said it is a populist policy for the brain dead... and went further to explain why. It amazes me how the people that can see how the right blames problems on immigrants / benefits scrougers, are blind to the left doing the same with "the rich". Too much finger pointing, and not enough looking in a mirror. You said it yourself, private schools are a small minority, so explain how punishing them drags up the state schools? The problem is THE MAJORITY do not want to pay the taxes necessary to fund world-beating education. You would have to be the village idiot to believe we can improve things by "making the rich pay a little more". Yep you did,you said this No charity status = no scholarships. The schools will simply remove all free places, thus allowing them to charge less for each fee-paying pupil, and Starmer's "extra billions in tax" will be wiped out by tens of thousands of pupils flooding back into state education. Which is patently untrue. |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Jul 16, 2023 0:46:19 GMT
Nope, I said it is a populist policy for the brain dead... and went further to explain why. It amazes me how the people that can see how the right blames problems on immigrants / benefits scrougers, are blind to the left doing the same with "the rich". Too much finger pointing, and not enough looking in a mirror. You said it yourself, private schools are a small minority, so explain how punishing them drags up the state schools? The problem is THE MAJORITY do not want to pay the taxes necessary to fund world-beating education. You would have to be the village idiot to believe we can improve things by "making the rich pay a little more". Yep you did,you said this No charity status = no scholarships. The schools will simply remove all free places, thus allowing them to charge less for each fee-paying pupil, and Starmer's "extra billions in tax" will be wiped out by tens of thousands of pupils flooding back into state education. Which is patently untrue. How is it untrue? They qualify for charity status because they offer scholarships and in many cases let state schools use their facilities (eg sports fields). If you increase the fees with VAT, they will simply cut all that in an effort to make the fees smaller. Smaller fees will mean less VAT for Starmer, and less people in private education will again, mean less VAT for Starmer. It is populist nonsense, and will make zero difference to the education of the average Joe. Starmer needs to stop fucking lying, and tell it how it is. If we want an equal society, with good public services, then the tax burden FOR EVERYBODY needs to increase by at least 10%. I'd vote for that... how many lefties would though, because as far as I can see they want somebody else to pay their share. Prove me wrong, show me somewhere in the West that has a low tax burden and has excellent education for all... good luck. |
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Jul 16, 2023 1:27:00 GMT
Yep you did,you said this No charity status = no scholarships. The schools will simply remove all free places, thus allowing them to charge less for each fee-paying pupil, and Starmer's "extra billions in tax" will be wiped out by tens of thousands of pupils flooding back into state education. Which is patently untrue. How is it untrue? They qualify for charity status because they offer scholarships and in many cases let state schools use their facilities (eg sports fields). If you increase the fees with VAT, they will simply cut all that in an effort to make the fees smaller. Smaller fees will mean less VAT for Starmer, and less people in private education will again, mean less VAT for Starmer. It is populist nonsense, and will make zero difference to the education of the average Joe. Starmer needs to stop fucking lying, and tell it how it is. If we want an equal society, with good public services, then the tax burden FOR EVERYBODY needs to increase by at least 10%. I'd vote for that... how many lefties would though, because as far as I can see they want somebody else to pay their share. Prove me wrong, show me somewhere in the West that has a low tax burden and has excellent education for all... good luck. You said if this is implemented tens of thousand will flood back in to state schools |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jul 16, 2023 6:40:13 GMT
Why wouldn't tens of thousands move to the State sector?. If you are going to make something more expensive (and that is the purpose of the proposal) then it stands to reason that less people will be able to afford it.
|
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Jul 16, 2023 7:36:38 GMT
Why wouldn't tens of thousands move to the State sector?. If you are going to make something more expensive (and that is the purpose of the proposal) then it stands to reason that less people will be able to afford it. Well both you and he (Dodgy Dave) are incapable of reading my posts,firstly to his ramblings I made it clear I don’t support Starmer,most of my objections are around charity status,he also spouts things I’ve not said like And I’m not sure which school he went to or you but maths are lacking so when he says this I demonstrated earlier in the thread that tens of thousands are not granted free education by public school charity only 1% which equates to 6000 out of over 600000 who go to public school,does he address this? no he converts it into falsely implying that I said public schools only account for 1% of the sector. He also implies by my objections I’m brain dead,I am lol ,crap maths no2 when he said this So let’s get this straight you remove charity status there are no scholarships so they remove all free places which allows them to charge less,so if they’re pay less how does that force tens of thousands back in to the state system. Please don’t reply with one liners on politics of envy or divert to healthcare how does any of the quoted above compute? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2023 9:06:35 GMT
But that’s not what you said in your original post is it so you move the goalposts Nope, I said it is a populist policy for the brain dead... and went further to explain why. It amazes me how the people that can see how the right blames problems on immigrants / benefits scrougers, are blind to the left doing the same with "the rich". Too much finger pointing, and not enough looking in a mirror. You said it yourself, private schools are a small minority, so explain how punishing them drags up the state schools? The problem is THE MAJORITY do not want to pay the taxes necessary to fund world-beating education. You would have to be the village idiot to believe we can improve things by "making the rich pay a little more". A poor service with little value for money isn't something that would survive for private education. Perhaps a lot of these problems in state schools lies with how the education grants are managed and what sort of people are dictating the curriculum. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jul 16, 2023 10:30:04 GMT
So let’s get this straight you remove charity status there are no scholarships so they remove all free places which allows them to charge less,so if they’re pay less how does that force tens of thousands back in to the state system. Please don’t reply with one liners on politics of envy or divert to healthcare how does any of the quoted above compute? Not sure where you get the idea that schools would scrap Bursaries and Scholarships if the cease to be charities. Anyway - even if you did it wouldn't cover the extra cost of fees increasing by 20%. |
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Jul 16, 2023 10:48:17 GMT
So let’s get this straight you remove charity status there are no scholarships so they remove all free places which allows them to charge less,so if they’re pay less how does that force tens of thousands back in to the state system. Please don’t reply with one liners on politics of envy or divert to healthcare how does any of the quoted above compute? Not sure where you get the idea that schools would scrap Bursaries and Scholarships if the cease to be charities. Anyway - even if you did it wouldn't cover the extra cost of fees increasing by 20%. So you agreed with Dodgy Dave but didn’t read his posts properly either. Where did I get it from? His post where he said if they lose charitable status they’ll scrap scholarships diverting tens of thousands that get it free to the state sector( it’s only 6000 in reality ) and will then lower the fees to the paying customers. Don't be questioning my maths check his he’s the one who posted it. |
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Jul 16, 2023 18:27:48 GMT
Tax revenues have to be obtained from somewhere. Most people accept that they wish taxes to be sourced progressively. Its hard to understand why private schools, whose customers are generally affluent, are given a tax break (without being rather cynical about the motivations of the politicians who awarded it). Yes of course this tax break should be abolished and the money raised used to help ordinary kids. And give the fee paying VATED parents a 'refund' on the amount of their taxed income goes towards state schools? if not why not? |
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Jul 16, 2023 18:33:12 GMT
Education and Healthcare are a public good - they both benefit the wider community. Yes, but private education or public schools as they are called are a luxury. They should be charged at a higher luxury VAT rate. Education is hardly a luxury |
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Jul 16, 2023 18:39:57 GMT
Cant do costings on the many fees charged. Any VAT paid to the school can be written off as a cost/deduction in parents' income tax declarations. ------------------- Eh? Vat is a deductible cost on a personal income tax return? Since when? I need to tell my accountant about this unexpected bonus |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2023 19:01:16 GMT
Yes, but private education or public schools as they are called are a luxury. They should be charged at a higher luxury VAT rate. Education is hardly a luxury Exactly, which is why it is provided by the state at taxpayer expense. |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Jul 16, 2023 22:02:11 GMT
Not sure where you get the idea that schools would scrap Bursaries and Scholarships if the cease to be charities. Anyway - even if you did it wouldn't cover the extra cost of fees increasing by 20%. So you agreed with Dodgy Dave but didn’t read his posts properly either. Where did I get it from? His post where he said if they lose charitable status they’ll scrap scholarships diverting tens of thousands that get it free to the state sector( it’s only 6000 in reality ) and will then lower the fees to the paying customers. Don't be questioning my maths check his he’s the one who posted it. You appear to have not understood the my original post... there was two points in the original sentence, not one lol. I said they will scrap free places to drive down costs... which will effect working class kids... that is one issue. Then I said tens of thousands will flood into the state section, which was an obvious reference to the reported consequences (by the media) of Starmer's plans... that is a separate issue. Lastly, you seem to be having a hard time with my other point. Starmer's plan is purely ideological, and will do more harm than good. Do you disagree with me that a better route would be to tell the public that we simply aren't paying enough taxes to have excellent education and public service, instead of this populist tripe? |
|
