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Post by jonksy on Jul 7, 2023 11:37:10 GMT
Even more so should the UK share their secret reasarch with a potential enemy?
UK edges closer to rejoining EU’s £85bn Horizon science programme.
Talks on returning as an associate member after Brexit row are close to agreement, say diplomatic sources
The UK is on the brink of doing a deal to return to the EU’s £85bn science research programme Horizon Europe.
Diplomatic sources say negotiations to become an associate member will continue over the weekend and the two sides are close to agreement after three months of talks, largely over the cost of re-entry.
The government’s plan B involved separate science funds for the UK but science leaders have said membership of Horizon is imperative. Photograph: poba/Getty Images
The UK was locked out of Horizon in 2020 in a tit-for-tat dispute over the failure to implement the Northern Ireland protocol trade arrangements in the original Brexit withdrawal agreement.
But the door to associate membership was reopened when the replacement Windsor framework was sealed in March, with the European Commission chief, Ursula von der Leyen, declaring a deal could be done “swiftly”.
The EU has already said the UK will not be expected to pay for 2021 and 2022, when it was not an associate member, but sources say the UK has been pressing for greater discounts on its contribution to the overall fund. One source said talks had gone backwards in the past few weeks.
Under the 2020 Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA), UK contributions were to be based on success rates in terms of research funds awarded to UK projects from 2019. The UK argued that contributions should be based on success rates in 2023, which would be much lower given the reduced applications to the fund due to the uncertainty over membership.
Data from the European Commission shows a huge drop in awards to British science programmes since 2019. In that year, €959.3m went to the UK in 1,364 grants, compared with €22.18m in 192 grants in 2023 to date.
It is understood there was also discussion about what level of under- or over-achievement should trigger a correction and how that would be resolved.
Sir Paul Nurse, director of the Francis Crick Institute in London, said a deal would be celebrated by scientists in the UK and across Europe. “I encourage the prime minister to finalise the agreement without further delay,” he said. “Connections with scientists and initiatives in Europe are one of our biggest research strengths and long may they continue.”
The foreign secretary, James Cleverly, met the commission’s vice-president Maroš Šefčovič on Monday and the linked membership to Euratom’s nuclear research programme was on the agenda.
According to Politico, the UK will recommend that the nuclear programme should be excluded from the deal on the grounds that it is not value for money.
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Post by zanygame on Jul 7, 2023 15:17:17 GMT
Excellent news. The Horizon project helps prevent duplication of testing and shares negative results as well as positive ones.
Sense slowly returns to the UK as it recovers from the punch in the face that was Brexit.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 8, 2023 16:33:46 GMT
Excellent news. The Horizon project helps prevent duplication of testing and shares negative results as well as positive ones. Sense slowly returns to the UK as it recovers from the punch in the face that was Brexit. It's better to have the freedom to take what is beneficial and disregard the rest. Europe has collaborated in science ever since science was invented. The damage was Johnson and his evil wife. |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 8, 2023 17:51:06 GMT
Excellent news. The Horizon project helps prevent duplication of testing and shares negative results as well as positive ones. Sense slowly returns to the UK as it recovers from the punch in the face that was Brexit. It's better to have the freedom to take what is beneficial and disregard the rest. Europe has collaborated in science ever since science was invented. The damage was Johnson and his evil wife. But it made him popular for the day and that's all that matters to Johnson. |
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Post by Toreador on Jul 8, 2023 18:35:20 GMT
It's better to have the freedom to take what is beneficial and disregard the rest. Europe has collaborated in science ever since science was invented. The damage was Johnson and his evil wife. But it made him popular for the day and that's all that matters to Johnson. Wasn't he one of your heroes when the government dished out money to save companies? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2023 18:50:29 GMT
But it made him popular for the day and that's all that matters to Johnson. Wasn't he one of your heroes when the government dished out money to save companies? Some people are fickle. Mr Johnson had more principles than all of EUphiles combined and actually dedicated himself to following his elected mandate. Unfortunately, he went a bit green afterwards and then started listening to Labour over lockdowns. |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 8, 2023 18:53:09 GMT
But it made him popular for the day and that's all that matters to Johnson. Wasn't he one of your heroes when the government dished out money to save companies? Yes indeed. It was only later I realised that it was just another thing to make him popular and that he had no plan to go with it. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 8, 2023 18:53:14 GMT
It's better to have the freedom to take what is beneficial and disregard the rest. Europe has collaborated in science ever since science was invented. The damage was Johnson and his evil wife. But it made him popular for the day and that's all that matters to Johnson. It's the art of discrimination. You have two groups, good and bad, and the act of discriminating is the act of accurately placing in the correct group, either pass or fail. However what with all of this anti-discrimination business ...everyone's a winner!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2023 18:55:32 GMT
Excellent news. The Horizon project helps prevent duplication of testing and shares negative results as well as positive ones. Sense slowly returns to the UK as it recovers from the punch in the face that was Brexit. It's better to have the freedom to take what is beneficial and disregard the rest. Europe has collaborated in science ever since science was invented. The damage was Johnson and his evil wife. I don't see why scientfic collaboration with European countries cannot continue. If the EU stands in the way, because its overly bureaucratic undemocratic regime doesn't entertain such freedoms, then your complaint is misdirected.
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Post by jonksy on Jul 8, 2023 18:58:08 GMT
Excellent news. The Horizon project helps prevent duplication of testing and shares negative results as well as positive ones. Sense slowly returns to the UK as it recovers from the punch in the face that was Brexit. Well it would be if it were true. You only have to look at the EU's failed Galileo project to confirm what a total waste of money and recources it is just to support the Brussels vanity of their elite. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 8, 2023 19:01:22 GMT
It's better to have the freedom to take what is beneficial and disregard the rest. Europe has collaborated in science ever since science was invented. The damage was Johnson and his evil wife. I don't see why scientfic collaboration with European countries cannot continue. If the EU stands in the way, because its overly bureaucratic undemocratic regime doesn't entertain such freedoms, then your complaint is misdirected.
We need scientific collaboration with the whole world. I'm also strongly opposed to this view that everything in this country should be military first, e.g. if we do science we do it so we can kill people more efficiently and hence such military stuff is secret and can not be shared. It makes us look evil to the rest of the world, where we aught to do research into positive stuff which can improve our economy. For example we need to figure out how to deliver shopping via drone. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 8, 2023 19:28:50 GMT
Scientific cooperation shouldn't be a political football.
It shouldn't be an overpriced EU scam.
It should be OPEN.
This is the age of the internet.
The age of LINUX.
Do you know how Linux works?
Loads of international programmers all sharing work and not creating clashing code.
There's something called GITHUB.
There's something called the GNU General Public Licence.
That kind of openness can be replicated in science.
Why does anyone need the EU in order to share scientific data?
Just do it open source the way the Linux community does it.
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Post by jonksy on Jul 8, 2023 19:35:37 GMT
Scientific cooperation shouldn't be a political football. It shouldn't be an overpriced EU scam. It should be OPEN. This is the age of the internet. The age of LINUX.Do you know how Linux works? Loads of international programmers all sharing work and not creating clashing code. There's something called GITHUB. There's something called the GNU General Public Licence. That kind of openness can be replicated in science. Why does anyone need the EU in order to share scientific data? Just do it open source the way the Linux community does it. And hack proof and all in the public domain. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 8, 2023 19:35:39 GMT
Scientific cooperation shouldn't be a political football. It shouldn't be an overpriced EU scam. It should be OPEN. This is the age of the internet. The age of LINUX. Do you know how Linux works? Loads of international programmers all sharing work and not creating clashing code. There's something called GITHUB. There's something called the GNU General Public Licence. That kind of openness can be replicated in science. Why does anyone need the EU in order to share scientific data? Just do it open source the way the Linux community does it. Typically PhDers have worked their bum off for years and paid out maybe a hundred grand on their education. What they need is research grants, and this is where Horizon comes in. If you pool your resources you can get the right people for each research job and avoid duplication of research. Also different cultures think differently so an international team is smarter. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 8, 2023 19:41:44 GMT
Scientific cooperation shouldn't be a political football. It shouldn't be an overpriced EU scam. It should be OPEN. This is the age of the internet. The age of LINUX. Do you know how Linux works? Loads of international programmers all sharing work and not creating clashing code. There's something called GITHUB. There's something called the GNU General Public Licence. That kind of openness can be replicated in science. Why does anyone need the EU in order to share scientific data? Just do it open source the way the Linux community does it. And that is one of the most intelligent posts made on here (or on the old forum) ever. |
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