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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2023 17:13:01 GMT
We, the United Kingdom are reliant upon the United States for our GPS system which we use, a system which is owned and operated by the US government.
There may be times in the future when for whatever reason, the United States may limit or restrict the use, most likely during an international crisis which may be political, economic or through hostilities.
Europe is now not dependent or beholden to either the US, Russia or China, because Europe now has its own, fully functioning and independent European system, owned by the partner countries, of which we were one.
If something is possible, its best to insure against that possibility, the United States may very well get another populist, right wing president who's slogan could once again be "America First", an isolationist, someone not keen on NATO or Europe.
Would you propose that the UK gets rid of its nuclear deterent ?, why do we need one, we could hide under the American nuclear umbrella.
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 9, 2023 17:19:38 GMT
We, the United Kingdom are reliant upon the United States for our GPS system which we use, a system which is owned and operated by the US government. There may be times in the future when for whatever reason, the United States may limit or restrict the use, most likely during an international crisis which may be political, economic or through hostilities.
Europe is now not dependent or beholden to either the US, Russia or China, because Europe now has its own, fully functioning and independent European system, owned by the partner countries, of which we were one. If something is possible, its best to insure against that possibility, the United States may very well get another populist, right wing president who's slogan could once again be "America First", an isolationist, someone not keen on NATO or Europe. Would you propose that the UK gets rid of its nuclear deterent ?, why do we need one, we could hide under the American nuclear umbrella. So we use Galileo or Glonass. I'm still not seeing what we lose by not being a partner country. Most of the countries in the world dont have their own GPS systems and they seem to get along just fine. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 9, 2023 17:25:12 GMT
The USA is an important ally. If you're saying that ally cannot be trusted, then why should we regard the EU any differently? The EU is NOT Europe. It is a badly run schizophrenic political union. If you're saying the USA cannot be trusted to provide military satellite navigational information, then the EU cannot either. So, in principle your argument supports this: www.gov.uk/guidance/space-based-pnt-programmeThe United Kingdom Space Based Positioning, Navigation and Timing Programme. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 9, 2023 17:37:26 GMT
We, the United Kingdom are reliant upon the United States for our GPS system which we use, a system which is owned and operated by the US government. There may be times in the future when for whatever reason, the United States may limit or restrict the use, most likely during an international crisis which may be political, economic or through hostilities. Europe is now not dependent or beholden to either the US, Russia or China, because Europe now has its own, fully functioning and independent European system, owned by the partner countries, of which we were one. If something is possible, its best to insure against that possibility, the United States may very well get another populist, right wing president who's slogan could once again be "America First", an isolationist, someone not keen on NATO or Europe. Would you propose that the UK gets rid of its nuclear deterent ?, why do we need one, we could hide under the American nuclear umbrella. We the taxpayer now own our own constellation which can do GPS. It was purchased for the very reason you explain. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2023 17:38:14 GMT
The USA is an important ally. If you're saying that ally cannot be trusted, then why should we regard the EU any differently? The EU is NOT Europe. It is a badly run schizophrenic political union. If you're saying the USA cannot be trusted to provide military satellite navigational information, then the EU cannot either. So, in principle your argument supports this: www.gov.uk/guidance/space-based-pnt-programmeThe United Kingdom Space Based Positioning, Navigation and Timing Programme. You completely miss the point, which is that WE WERE partners in Galileo, we were part owners, but now it is us that relies on others. This thread is supposedly about "wasting money" ... We are now wasting money by attempting to fund and commission our own system, when we were a partner in a much better European one, where costs were shared. Same with everything else, we can either co-operate as in such things as science, medicine, defence or aerospace or we can go it alone and the result of which will be a much greater cost, and in many instances beyond our capability. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 9, 2023 17:49:46 GMT
You miss the point.
EU membership was costing us £9.5bn a year post rebate, limiting who we could have free trade with, imposing economic Darwinism upon us, loads of manufacturers either went bust in the face of cheaper competition from other parts of the EU where wages taxes and currency were cheaper, or relocated to other parts of the EU where wages, taxes and currency were cheaper.
It imposed protectionist tariffs upon us that we did not need or benefit from.
Gallileo came with too many strings attached.
Horizon has too many strings attached.
You're defending a fundamentally flawed political project that we do not need to be a part of.
And, if independence means not being in Gallileo, no big deal.
We can build our own equivalent.
We're now selling £340 billion a year to the EU whereas we were selling £223.3 billion to the EU.
Inflation adjusted, what we used to sell as members pre referendum, is still less than £300 billion now.
Brexit is a success.
There's no need to talk our country down, or wistfully look back at things we're no longer part of.
We have our own navigational satellite system and everything we're doing, is costing less than membership of the EU would have done.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 9, 2023 19:33:14 GMT
The USA is an important ally. If you're saying that ally cannot be trusted, then why should we regard the EU any differently? The EU is NOT Europe. It is a badly run schizophrenic political union. If you're saying the USA cannot be trusted to provide military satellite navigational information, then the EU cannot either. So, in principle your argument supports this: www.gov.uk/guidance/space-based-pnt-programmeThe United Kingdom Space Based Positioning, Navigation and Timing Programme. You completely miss the point, which is that WE WERE partners in Galileo, we were part owners, but now it is us that relies on others. This thread is supposedly about "wasting money" ... We are now wasting money by attempting to fund and commission our own system, when we were a partner in a much better European one, where costs were shared. Same with everything else, we can either co-operate as in such things as science, medicine, defence or aerospace or we can go it alone and the result of which will be a much greater cost, and in many instances beyond our capability. There was a reason for it I think. It was going for a bargain basement price and either we bought it or the satellites would have no one to fly them. Chances are if we were smart we could either make money off it or sell the operation at a profit. We pay only a fraction of the original cost to put them up there. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jul 10, 2023 8:42:45 GMT
We, the United Kingdom are reliant upon the United States for our GPS system which we use, a system which is owned and operated by the US government. There may be times in the future when for whatever reason, the United States may limit or restrict the use, most likely during an international crisis which may be political, economic or through hostilities.
Europe is now not dependent or beholden to either the US, Russia or China, because Europe now has its own, fully functioning and independent European system, owned by the partner countries, of which we were one. If something is possible, its best to insure against that possibility, the United States may very well get another populist, right wing president who's slogan could once again be "America First", an isolationist, someone not keen on NATO or Europe. Would you propose that the UK gets rid of its nuclear deterent ?, why do we need one, we could hide under the American nuclear umbrella. So we use Galileo or Glonass. I'm still not seeing what we lose by not being a partner country. Most of the countries in the world dont have their own GPS systems and they seem to get along just fine. You dont get to use it until you are allowed to use it. The technology is coded and all your devices would have to be changed. It is also quite possible that the EU makes changes to its system, leaving the UK even less connected. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 10, 2023 10:52:23 GMT
Going it alone is far cheaper than going with the EU which comes with too high a price.
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Post by jonksy on Jul 10, 2023 11:04:01 GMT
Going it alone is far cheaper than going with the EU which comes with too high a price. And why should the UK share their technology with a potential enemy especially the frogs and the krouts. |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 10, 2023 12:55:28 GMT
France once quit NATO, it withdrew from the Eurofighter project developing the Rafale instead, it has form at doing its own thing, so why not us?
We don't need to be in Horizon, Galileo or the Single Market and our sales to the EU are worth more than they were before the referendum.
I'm glad to be out.
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Post by jonksy on Jul 10, 2023 13:02:32 GMT
France once quit NATO, it withdrew from the Eurofighter project developing the Rafale instead, it has form at doing its own thing, so why not us? We don't need to be in Horizon, Galileo or the Single Market and our sales to the EU are worth more than they were before the referendum. I'm glad to be out. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jul 10, 2023 13:05:38 GMT
France once quit NATO, it withdrew from the Eurofighter project developing the Rafale instead, it has form at doing its own thing, so why not us? We don't need to be in Horizon, Galileo or the Single Market and our sales to the EU are worth more than they were before the referendum. I'm glad to be out. If you want to see the UK regress back to the Stone Age keep on bringing up things we don't really need. This screw up with Horizon has totally screwed our academics. Being in the army is fine. You get a regular pay cheque, but in academia you have to get your own funding. You would not find it funny to be in a job with no bloody money. You'd leave. |
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Post by zanygame on Jul 10, 2023 17:46:29 GMT
France once quit NATO, it withdrew from the Eurofighter project developing the Rafale instead, it has form at doing its own thing, so why not us? We don't need to be in Horizon, Galileo or the Single Market and our sales to the EU are worth more than they were before the referendum. I'm glad to be out. If you want to see the UK regress back to the Stone Age keep on bringing up things we don't really need. This screw up with Horizon has totally screwed our academics. Being in the army is fine. You get a regular pay cheque, but in academia you have to get your own funding. You would not find it funny to be in a job with no bloody money. You'd leave. Baron, you're forgetting many of the posters on here have yet to leave the stone age. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 10, 2023 21:18:20 GMT
So we use Galileo or Glonass. I'm still not seeing what we lose by not being a partner country. Most of the countries in the world dont have their own GPS systems and they seem to get along just fine.
The technology is coded and all your devices would have to be changed. It is also quite possible that the EU makes changes to its system, leaving the UK even less connected. All 3 systems are open to public use - there is no 'allowed' |
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