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Post by zanygame on Oct 30, 2022 10:39:01 GMT
Well is there is a massive lead for the uk rejoining as hinted , what im struggling to understand is why the labour party and keir starmer carry on with this nonsensical rubbish of making brexit work?
I know we are talking about starmer and his poor attempts at having some guile in politics , but surely most politicians have a rough idea of the public mood. Bearing that in mind , surely labour should be championing rejoin if its such a vote winner?
Maybe rejoin isnt as popular as some hint ,and as i keep saying , labour not as clever as they make out. Whats more likely to happen under a future labour government is rejoin by the back door. Labour dont like the plebs having a say in case they get the wrong answer , and if so , then all hell will break loose .
One poll says Yes, there is a massive lead for the UK rejoining. BUT polls are polls. They can be spot on; they can be way off. They are a legitimate guide and indicator, but you cannot rely on them as your sole basis when making a final decision as they are subject to mood and current events. Jo Swinson comes to mind. This is just one poll so maybe, realistically, rejoining is not that popular. However, trend does show that more people would vote to rejoin the EU and that more people believe that it was wrong to vote to leave the EU. It is obvious to me that Keith Starmer is anti-EU just like Corbyn. The only difference between them is that Keith Starmer has better presentation. He has more product on his hair than Corbyn. Its a poll of polls. Not one poll. The one I posted consists of 26 polls since 2017 |
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Post by thomas on Oct 30, 2022 10:44:01 GMT
Well is there is a massive lead for the uk rejoining as hinted , what im struggling to understand is why the labour party and keir starmer carry on with this nonsensical rubbish of making brexit work?
I know we are talking about starmer and his poor attempts at having some guile in politics , but surely most politicians have a rough idea of the public mood. Bearing that in mind , surely labour should be championing rejoin if its such a vote winner?
Maybe rejoin isnt as popular as some hint ,and as i keep saying , labour not as clever as they make out. Whats more likely to happen under a future labour government is rejoin by the back door. Labour dont like the plebs having a say in case they get the wrong answer , and if so , then all hell will break loose .
One poll says Yes, there is a massive lead for the UK rejoining. BUT polls are polls. They can be spot on; they can be way off. They are a legitimate guide and indicator, but you cannot rely on them as your sole basis when making a final decision as they are subject to mood and current events. Jo Swinson comes to mind. This is just one poll so maybe, realistically, rejoining is not that popular. However, trend does show that more people would vote to rejoin the EU and that more people believe that it was wrong to vote to leave the EU. It is obvious to me that Keith Starmer is anti-EU just like Corbyn. The only difference between them is that Keith Starmer has better presentation. He has more product on his hair than Corbyn. The idea keir starmer is anti EU , the guy who spent 3 years at the forefront of the anti demcoratic throng at westmisnter trying to disrespect a democratic vote is laughable.
I didnt like jo swinson or her party , and was doing cartwheels when the snp dumped her out on her arse , but at least she had more spine than starmer.
My point remains , if there is such a clear cut approval from the uk public to rejoin the eu , then labour should be jumping on the bandwagon. There isnt ,and labour arent , which then goes back to my point starmer , poor fool that he is , will try and sneak the uk back in by the backdoor and will cause mayhem for labour and the uk.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 11:30:56 GMT
One poll says Yes, there is a massive lead for the UK rejoining. BUT polls are polls. They can be spot on; they can be way off. They are a legitimate guide and indicator, but you cannot rely on them as your sole basis when making a final decision as they are subject to mood and current events. Jo Swinson comes to mind. This is just one poll so maybe, realistically, rejoining is not that popular. However, trend does show that more people would vote to rejoin the EU and that more people believe that it was wrong to vote to leave the EU. It is obvious to me that Keith Starmer is anti-EU just like Corbyn. The only difference between them is that Keith Starmer has better presentation. He has more product on his hair than Corbyn. The idea keir starmer is anti EU , the guy who spent 3 years at the forefront of the anti demcoratic throng at westmisnter trying to disrespect a democratic vote is laughable.
I didnt like jo swinson or her party , and was doing cartwheels when the snp dumped her out on her arse , but at least she had more spine than starmer.
My point remains , if there is such a clear cut approval from the uk public to rejoin the eu , then labour should be jumping on the bandwagon. There isnt ,and labour arent , which then goes back to my point starmer , poor fool that he is , will try and sneak the uk back in by the backdoor and will cause mayhem for labour and the uk.
He made an official statement that he would not take us back into the EU and has not done anything so far to contradict his statement. That's being anti-EU to me -- i.e., anti EU membership. Whether or not he is just saying that to play party politics is another matter. If you want to expound on that, then go ahead, knock yourself out. But remind me, who are these "anti demcoratic throng at westmisnter trying to disrespect a democratic vote" and how were they trying to disrespect a democratic vote? |
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Post by thomas on Oct 30, 2022 11:41:54 GMT
The idea keir starmer is anti EU , the guy who spent 3 years at the forefront of the anti demcoratic throng at westmisnter trying to disrespect a democratic vote is laughable.
I didnt like jo swinson or her party , and was doing cartwheels when the snp dumped her out on her arse , but at least she had more spine than starmer.
My point remains , if there is such a clear cut approval from the uk public to rejoin the eu , then labour should be jumping on the bandwagon. There isnt ,and labour arent , which then goes back to my point starmer , poor fool that he is , will try and sneak the uk back in by the backdoor and will cause mayhem for labour and the uk.
He made an official statement that he would not take us back into the EU and has not done anything so far to contradict his statement. That's being anti-EU to me -- i.e., anti EU membership. Whether or not he is just saying that to play party politics is another matter. If you want to expound on that, then go ahead, knock yourself out. But remind me, who are these "anti demcoratic throng at westmisnter trying to disrespect a democratic vote" and how were they trying to disrespect a democratic vote? None of starmers statements seem to be able to last the week. According to my former labour supporting friend srb on this very forum , a card carrying member of labour until starmer took over , keir starmer broke every pledge he made to become new labour leader.
So what the man says can be taken with a pinch of salt.
# sigh.
Again ? Really? Are we seriously going to have to write yet another synopsis of the actions of the westmisnter parliament and leaders like starmer one of the main anti democrats , between 2016 and 2019 , in trying and failing to overturn a democratic mandate to leave the EU?
So much so starmer wanted to piss all over 62 % of labours constituencies who voted for brexit , and even post 2019 , tried and failed to install a remainer candidate paul williams in a leaver district like hartlepool?
your trouble mate is you wish the voting public were mushroom like , kept in the dark and fed on labour party bullshit.
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Post by borchester on Oct 30, 2022 11:58:56 GMT
He made an official statement that he would not take us back into the EU and has not done anything so far to contradict his statement. That's being anti-EU to me -- i.e., anti EU membership. Whether or not he is just saying that to play party politics is another matter. If you want to expound on that, then go ahead, knock yourself out. But remind me, who are these "anti demcoratic throng at westmisnter trying to disrespect a democratic vote" and how were they trying to disrespect a democratic vote? None of starmers statements seem to be able to last the week. According to my former labour supporting friend srb on this very forum , a card carrying member of labour until starmer took over , keir starmer broke every pledge he made to become new labour leader.
So what the man says can be taken with a pinch of salt.
# sigh.
Again ? Really? Are we seriously going to have to write yet another synopsis of the actions of the westmisnter parliament and leaders like starmer one of the main anti democrats , between 2016 and 2019 , in trying and failing to overturn a democratic mandate to leave the EU?
So much so starmer wanted to piss all over 62 % of labours constituencies who voted for brexit , and even post 2019 , tried and failed to install a remainer candidate paul williams in a leaver district like hartlepool?
your trouble mate is you wish the voting public were mushroom like , kept in the dark and fed on labour party bullshit.
Starmer is pro Starmer and as such I can't see him jumping on any pro EU bandwagon. Steve as was on Politics.Com might be hawking his conscience around the coffee bars of the Islington left, but Sir Stodge knows that a sizable chunk of the Brexit vote came from working class labour supporters. Our Kier may be the dreariest bastard that ever pinned on a red rosette, but he is not daft. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 30, 2022 12:03:33 GMT
None of starmers statements seem to be able to last the week. According to my former labour supporting friend srb on this very forum , a card carrying member of labour until starmer took over , keir starmer broke every pledge he made to become new labour leader.
So what the man says can be taken with a pinch of salt.
# sigh.
Again ? Really? Are we seriously going to have to write yet another synopsis of the actions of the westmisnter parliament and leaders like starmer one of the main anti democrats , between 2016 and 2019 , in trying and failing to overturn a democratic mandate to leave the EU?
So much so starmer wanted to piss all over 62 % of labours constituencies who voted for brexit , and even post 2019 , tried and failed to install a remainer candidate paul williams in a leaver district like hartlepool?
your trouble mate is you wish the voting public were mushroom like , kept in the dark and fed on labour party bullshit.
Starmer is pro Starmer and as such I can't see him jumping on any pro EU bandwagon. Steve as was on Politics.Com might be hawking his conscience around the coffee bars of the Islington left, but Sir Stodge knows that a sizable chunk of the Brexit vote came from working class labour supporters. Our Kier may be the dreariest bastard that ever pinned on a red rosette, but he is not daft. possibly borkie , but as i earlier pointed out , he was daft enough to try and shaft labour brexiters in GE19 , and install an out and out remainer in the hartlepool by election .
I think he is that daft , or more properly thinks everyone else around hm is dafter than he is. Ultimately the public will be his judge . It will be interesting to see come election time if the brexiter public trust him enough to give him their vote.
Takes years to build trust , and seconds to break it. As labours dire performance in scotland shows....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 12:21:45 GMT
He made an official statement that he would not take us back into the EU and has not done anything so far to contradict his statement. That's being anti-EU to me -- i.e., anti EU membership. Whether or not he is just saying that to play party politics is another matter. If you want to expound on that, then go ahead, knock yourself out. But remind me, who are these "anti demcoratic throng at westmisnter trying to disrespect a democratic vote" and how were they trying to disrespect a democratic vote? None of starmers statements seem to be able to last the week. According to my former labour supporting friend srb on this very forum , a card carrying member of labour until starmer took over , keir starmer broke every pledge he made to become new labour leader.
So what the man says can be taken with a pinch of salt.
# sigh.
Again ? Really? Are we seriously going to have to write yet another synopsis of the actions of the westmisnter parliament and leaders like starmer one of the main anti democrats , between 2016 and 2019 , in trying and failing to overturn a democratic mandate to leave the EU?
So much so starmer wanted to piss all over 62 % of labours constituencies who voted for brexit , and even post 2019 , tried and failed to install a remainer candidate paul williams in a leaver district like hartlepool?
your trouble mate is you wish the voting public were mushroom like , kept in the dark and fed on labour party bullshit.
You brought it up. I didn't. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't misunderstand what you were saying. BTW, the referendum was not a mandate. It was an advice that any government could have chosen to heed. Or not. It wasn't even democratic is the strictest, most technical sense of the term. Your trouble is that you use the word mandate at your convenience. It is a mandate (with legal foundation) when you want to legitimise the referendum, but it is not a mandate (without legal foundation) when you're faced with the issue of the court declaring the results undemocratic and thus, void, due to electoral fraud. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 30, 2022 12:34:45 GMT
None of starmers statements seem to be able to last the week. According to my former labour supporting friend srb on this very forum , a card carrying member of labour until starmer took over , keir starmer broke every pledge he made to become new labour leader.
So what the man says can be taken with a pinch of salt.
# sigh.
Again ? Really? Are we seriously going to have to write yet another synopsis of the actions of the westmisnter parliament and leaders like starmer one of the main anti democrats , between 2016 and 2019 , in trying and failing to overturn a democratic mandate to leave the EU?
So much so starmer wanted to piss all over 62 % of labours constituencies who voted for brexit , and even post 2019 , tried and failed to install a remainer candidate paul williams in a leaver district like hartlepool?
your trouble mate is you wish the voting public were mushroom like , kept in the dark and fed on labour party bullshit.
You brought it up. I didn't. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't misunderstand what you were saying. BTW, the referendum was not a mandate. It was an advice that any government could have chosen to heed. Or not. It wasn't even democratic is the strictest, most technical sense of the term. Your trouble is that you use the word mandate at your convenience. It is a mandate (with legal foundation) when you want to legitimise the referendum, but it is not a mandate (without legal foundation) when you're faced with the issue of the court declaring the results undemocratic and thus, void, due to electoral fraud. You understood me perfectly well.
Keir Starmer felt so strongly about the Brexit referendum result in June 2016 that he quit as a junior shadow minister under Jeremy Corbyn.
A few months later he returned to the Labour frontbench as shadow Brexit secretary and spent the next four years campaigning to mitigate the result, which he described as “catastrophic”, while at the same time retaining voters in “red wall” constituencies.
But he was a remainer.
He campaigned against a no-deal Brexit and for a second referendum to give the people a “confirmatory vote” on any deal with Brussels.
Ah the anti democratic remainer refusal to accept a democratic mandate shines through yet again. If one of the biggest votes in uk history to leave isnt a mandate then i dont know what is.
I say that as somene who voted remain , but was repulsed by the sheer anti democratic arrogance of many remainers.
you are arguing semantics mate.
mandate
an official order or commission to do something.
the authority to carry out a policy, regarded as given by the electorate to a party or candidate that wins an election
give (someone) authority to act in a certain way.
im sure most fair minded people accept leave had a mandate after the 2016 referendum result. burying your head in the sand in denial after the events of these past 6 years , especially the fact remain couldnt win one at the ballot box in free and fair uk elections since 2015 shows how much in denial you are.
Shifty Starmer can't be trusted on Brexit
Keir Starmer not trusted on Brexit by GB News viewers despite ruling out campaign to rejoin EU – poll
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Post by sandypine on Oct 30, 2022 12:37:41 GMT
None of starmers statements seem to be able to last the week. According to my former labour supporting friend srb on this very forum , a card carrying member of labour until starmer took over , keir starmer broke every pledge he made to become new labour leader.
So what the man says can be taken with a pinch of salt.
# sigh.
Again ? Really? Are we seriously going to have to write yet another synopsis of the actions of the westmisnter parliament and leaders like starmer one of the main anti democrats , between 2016 and 2019 , in trying and failing to overturn a democratic mandate to leave the EU?
So much so starmer wanted to piss all over 62 % of labours constituencies who voted for brexit , and even post 2019 , tried and failed to install a remainer candidate paul williams in a leaver district like hartlepool?
your trouble mate is you wish the voting public were mushroom like , kept in the dark and fed on labour party bullshit.
You brought it up. I didn't. I just wanted to make sure that I didn't misunderstand what you were saying. BTW, the referendum was not a mandate. It was an advice that any government could have chosen to heed. Or not. It wasn't even democratic is the strictest, most technical sense of the term. Your trouble is that you use the word mandate at your convenience. It is a mandate (with legal foundation) when you want to legitimise the referendum, but it is not a mandate (without legal foundation) when you're faced with the issue of the court declaring the results undemocratic and thus, void, due to electoral fraud. The referendum was advisory and parliament decided to take heed of it. Cameron had said we will do whatever the electorate decide. 2019 was 'get Brexit done' which won and that was the mandate, no different to the Heath mandate to join. Did the courts so decide or did they just confirm that electoral fraud had occurred? |
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Post by bancroft on Oct 30, 2022 12:49:49 GMT
The annoying thing for me is we still hear about the ECHR being used to say why we can't do things over bogus asylum seekers.
Not what I expected from Brexit..........
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Post by patman post on Oct 30, 2022 13:16:14 GMT
Wasn’t Brexit concerned with the UK leaving the EU?
If so, why would you expect the UK’s relationship with the ECHR to be changed…?
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Post by Toreador on Oct 30, 2022 17:21:49 GMT
I was not aware of promises of sunny uplands and unicorns. I was very much aware of how disaster would be just round the corner, and despite many Remoaners best attempts to engineer such a disaster we have been faring on a par with much of the Eurozone over the last couple of years and in fact in some respects a bit better. The crux of the matter is would we be significantly better off if we had stayed in. Who knows? You must have been hiding in a cupboard then here's what you were being promised by the official leave campaign:  and here's the real Project Fear from Vote Leave's 2016 campaign:  If this article is anything to go by, some of the EU will be diverting their business to the UK: www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1427426/European-Union-Brexit-news-German-businesses-economy-Brussels-UK-latest-vn |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 30, 2022 17:36:42 GMT
The article takes bits of sentences German business lobbyist. Ulrich Hoppe, says, but nowhere does it say WHY German business might turn to the UK. I'm very sceptical of any article in the Express, especially one that starts. "THE EUROPEAN UNION'S hopes of wiping out Britain as an economic competitor have failed," Click bait. So why would German business want to invest in the UK? |
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Post by Steve on Oct 30, 2022 18:23:31 GMT
IF being a very big word where the Daily Express is concerned. 18 months have passed since that article and guess what, no evidence of such diversion to the UK. Worse BMW a somewhat well known German company have moved some production out of the UK |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2022 18:46:59 GMT
One poll says Yes, there is a massive lead for the UK rejoining. BUT polls are polls. They can be spot on; they can be way off. They are a legitimate guide and indicator, but you cannot rely on them as your sole basis when making a final decision as they are subject to mood and current events. Jo Swinson comes to mind. This is just one poll so maybe, realistically, rejoining is not that popular. However, trend does show that more people would vote to rejoin the EU and that more people believe that it was wrong to vote to leave the EU. It is obvious to me that Keith Starmer is anti-EU just like Corbyn. The only difference between them is that Keith Starmer has better presentation. He has more product on his hair than Corbyn. Its a poll of polls. Not one poll. The one I posted consists of 26 polls since 2017 The article refers to the poll "conducted by Redfield and Wilton Strategies for the UK in a Changing Europe think-tank." |
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