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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 6:30:50 GMT
You seem to forget he has not broken any promises yet. Have you never adapted to changing circumstance. If you say you will do something will you do it no matter what circumstances change? no?
A list of Keir Starmer’s abandoned policy pledges, from tuition fees to nationalisation
Since becoming Labour leader in 2020, Keir Starmer has abandoned some of his key promises. We’ve broken them down
A very interesting read which explains quite succinctly why some 'pledges' have to be put on hold and some have to be amended. One of the biggest criticisms of Labour's pledges is 'how will you pay for it', that does not seem to happen with the Tories though, but when a leader comes along and has to 'adapt' to the current financial situation he is still criticised, this is a really odd position to take. One would have thought that a pragmatic approach would be welcomed. The Labour manifesto for the upcoming GE has not been made public yet so no one really knows what Starmer' plans will be and it is certain they will have to 'adapt' to what they can afford. Should all governments be made to stand by their manifesto's from previous years and incarnations, or just Labour? Starmer may well have agreed or said he agreed with all of Labour under Corbyn and lets face it it was radical but he leads in 2024, not 2019. The article makes much mention of 2019 and 2017 which was before the economic turmoil of Covid and Truss. |
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Post by Toreador on Jun 25, 2023 8:08:05 GMT
no?
A list of Keir Starmer’s abandoned policy pledges, from tuition fees to nationalisation
Since becoming Labour leader in 2020, Keir Starmer has abandoned some of his key promises. We’ve broken them down
A very interesting read which explains quite succinctly why some 'pledges' have to be put on hold and some have to be amended. One of the biggest criticisms of Labour's pledges is 'how will you pay for it', that does not seem to happen with the Tories though, but when a leader comes along and has to 'adapt' to the current financial situation he is still criticised, this is a really odd position to take. One would have thought that a pragmatic approach would be welcomed. The Labour manifesto for the upcoming GE has not been made public yet so no one really knows what Starmer' plans will be and it is certain they will have to 'adapt' to what they can afford. Should all governments be made to stand by their manifesto's from previous years and incarnations, or just Labour? Starmer may well have agreed or said he agreed with all of Labour under Corbyn and lets face it it was radical but he leads in 2024, not 2019. The article makes much mention of 2019 and 2017 which was before the economic turmoil of Covid and Truss. Just stop making excuses for lame brained politicians. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 8:15:52 GMT
A very interesting read which explains quite succinctly why some 'pledges' have to be put on hold and some have to be amended. One of the biggest criticisms of Labour's pledges is 'how will you pay for it', that does not seem to happen with the Tories though, but when a leader comes along and has to 'adapt' to the current financial situation he is still criticised, this is a really odd position to take. One would have thought that a pragmatic approach would be welcomed. The Labour manifesto for the upcoming GE has not been made public yet so no one really knows what Starmer' plans will be and it is certain they will have to 'adapt' to what they can afford. Should all governments be made to stand by their manifesto's from previous years and incarnations, or just Labour? Starmer may well have agreed or said he agreed with all of Labour under Corbyn and lets face it it was radical but he leads in 2024, not 2019. The article makes much mention of 2019 and 2017 which was before the economic turmoil of Covid and Truss. Just stop making excuses for lame brained politicians. To be fair they are all lame brained in my opinion. I just wonder how, if a person were to agree to buy a house and then for some reason becomes incapacitated, before contracts are signed, and can no longer work whether they would change their mind on buying the house that they can no longer afford or 'carry on regardless'. One has to adapt to changing circumstances and if amending a plan is required, then needs be. |
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Post by thomas on Jun 25, 2023 8:24:28 GMT
no?
A list of Keir Starmer’s abandoned policy pledges, from tuition fees to nationalisation
Since becoming Labour leader in 2020, Keir Starmer has abandoned some of his key promises. We’ve broken them down
A very interesting read which explains quite succinctly why some 'pledges' have to be put on hold and some have to be amended. One of the biggest criticisms of Labour's pledges is 'how will you pay for it', that does not seem to happen with the Tories though, but when a leader comes along and has to 'adapt' to the current financial situation he is still criticised, this is a really odd position to take. One would have thought that a pragmatic approach would be welcomed. The Labour manifesto for the upcoming GE has not been made public yet so no one really knows what Starmer' plans will be and it is certain they will have to 'adapt' to what they can afford. Should all governments be made to stand by their manifesto's from previous years and incarnations, or just Labour? Starmer may well have agreed or said he agreed with all of Labour under Corbyn and lets face it it was radical but he leads in 2024, not 2019. The article makes much mention of 2019 and 2017 which was before the economic turmoil of Covid and Truss. Labours problem is they jump on every bandwagon , try and appear whiter than white , but when caught out either lying , or reneging on pledges , they turn round squealing the tories do it too. That s pathetic , and doesnt hold any water with the public.
all governments to my mind should be held to account over manifesto pledges and promises , including the snp and tories , so no labour arent being singled out. Im simply pointing out that your weak defence of starmers bullshit doesnt hold any water.
no wonder the public cant stand either of the main two uk parties. All thier lies , excuses and bullshit. Starmer for the record looks like falling into power in the near future , but lets be clear , simply because he s the second horse in a two horse race where the first horse has fallen , rather than anything he is saying or doing , or any innate political skill.
The uk public are going to sufffer under the tories for a while yet , then your party , a fag papers width away from the tories in terms of policy and outlook , will take power , and i imagine the biggest change will be the european issue , where the uk will be tied to brussells behind closed doors. BRINO as has been starmers policy since the days when he championed it under corbyn.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 8:45:46 GMT
A very interesting read which explains quite succinctly why some 'pledges' have to be put on hold and some have to be amended. One of the biggest criticisms of Labour's pledges is 'how will you pay for it', that does not seem to happen with the Tories though, but when a leader comes along and has to 'adapt' to the current financial situation he is still criticised, this is a really odd position to take. One would have thought that a pragmatic approach would be welcomed. The Labour manifesto for the upcoming GE has not been made public yet so no one really knows what Starmer' plans will be and it is certain they will have to 'adapt' to what they can afford. Should all governments be made to stand by their manifesto's from previous years and incarnations, or just Labour? Starmer may well have agreed or said he agreed with all of Labour under Corbyn and lets face it it was radical but he leads in 2024, not 2019. The article makes much mention of 2019 and 2017 which was before the economic turmoil of Covid and Truss. Labours problem is they jump on every bandwagon , try and appear whiter than white , but when caught out either lying , or reneging on pledges , they turn round squealing the tories do it too. That s pathetic , and doesnt hold any water with the public.
all governments to my mind should be held to account over manifesto pledges and promises , including the snp and tories , so no labour arent being singled out. Im simply pointing out that your weak defence of starmers bullshit doesnt hold any water.
no wonder the public cant stand either of the main two uk parties. All thier lies , excuses and bullshit. Starmer for the record looks like falling into power in the near future , but lets be clear , simply because he s the second horse in a two horse race where the first horse has fallen , rather than anything he is saying or doing , or any innate political skill.
The uk public are going to sufffer under the tories for a while yet , then your party , a fag papers width away from the tories in terms of policy and outlook , will take power , and i imagine the biggest change will be the european issue , where the uk will be tied to brussells behind closed doors. BRINO as has been starmers policy since the days when he championed it under corbyn.
Labour's manifesto is not public yet, how can we judge? They don't jump on every bandwagon just those, which you appear not to like. |
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Post by thomas on Jun 25, 2023 8:53:37 GMT
Labours problem is they jump on every bandwagon , try and appear whiter than white , but when caught out either lying , or reneging on pledges , they turn round squealing the tories do it too. That s pathetic , and doesnt hold any water with the public.
all governments to my mind should be held to account over manifesto pledges and promises , including the snp and tories , so no labour arent being singled out. Im simply pointing out that your weak defence of starmers bullshit doesnt hold any water.
no wonder the public cant stand either of the main two uk parties. All thier lies , excuses and bullshit. Starmer for the record looks like falling into power in the near future , but lets be clear , simply because he s the second horse in a two horse race where the first horse has fallen , rather than anything he is saying or doing , or any innate political skill.
The uk public are going to sufffer under the tories for a while yet , then your party , a fag papers width away from the tories in terms of policy and outlook , will take power , and i imagine the biggest change will be the european issue , where the uk will be tied to brussells behind closed doors. BRINO as has been starmers policy since the days when he championed it under corbyn.
Labour's manifesto is not public yet, how can we judge? They don't jump on every bandwagon just those, which you appear not to like. i dont vote labour , so i can dislike what i please. What you appear not to like is folk like me pointing out starmers dishonesty and pledges thrown out the window.
The trouble with labour and thier supporters is that they think everyone around them are dumber than what they are. I find its usually the other way around.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 9:06:46 GMT
Labour's manifesto is not public yet, how can we judge? They don't jump on every bandwagon just those, which you appear not to like. i dont vote labour , so i can dislike what i please. What you appear not to like is folk like me pointing out starmers dishonesty and pledges thrown out the window.
The trouble with labour and thier supporters is that they think everyone around them are dumber than what they are. I find its usually the other way around.
I don't think Starmer is an totally honest person and I have said so before. I have no problem with you pointing out his dishonesty but let's make it his dishonesty and not call pragmatism, dishonesty. My point is one cannot judge him before we know what he intends in an official manifesto. As to his 'pledges' it is perfectly reasonable to 'cut your cloth according to your means' and if that means delaying or even abandoning those pledges then so be it. Going back to 2017 and 2019 is unreasonable as a lot has happened since then. Take railway re-nationalisation as an example: the plan was to pay off the franchises and re-nationalise the lot but now, it appears to be to wait until the franchise expires and do not renew, this is sensible and costs to the taxpayer are greatly diminished. |
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Post by thomas on Jun 25, 2023 9:11:45 GMT
i dont vote labour , so i can dislike what i please. What you appear not to like is folk like me pointing out starmers dishonesty and pledges thrown out the window.
The trouble with labour and thier supporters is that they think everyone around them are dumber than what they are. I find its usually the other way around.
I don't think Starmer is an totally honest person and I have said so before. I have no problem with you pointing out his dishonesty but let's make it his dishonesty and not call pragmatism, dishonesty. Conversation over then. Hes dishonest , and cant be trusted , and you are tacitly agreeing in between more weasel words what im saying is truth.
aye you can. If he wants peoples votes , then people first must judge him worthy. My judgement is he isnt worthy , and shouldnt be allowed anywhere near any form of power.
He is dishonest , breaks pledges as you break wind , and the basic of any relationship is trust. If there is no trust , you have nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 10:30:09 GMT
Is there too much focus on persanality and not enough upon what a political party stands for, or what kind of direction you want to see the country move in. ?
Whats the alternative to Labour for someone who wants to see Moral Capitalism and Social Justice ?, you think we would consider voting Tory or Reform ?.
We have to be honest and pragmatic - I could vote Lib Dem I suppose, but then looking where the Lib Dems stand in my consituency, it would be a waste of time under our FPTP system, same with voting Green.
Voting Labour for me IS NOT about voting for Keir Starmer, its about voting for The Labour Party, the ONLY credible and viable alternative to the ruling party, and with a high chance of winning.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 11:48:44 GMT
I don't think Starmer is an totally honest person and I have said so before. I have no problem with you pointing out his dishonesty but let's make it his dishonesty and not call pragmatism, dishonesty. Conversation over then. Hes dishonest , and cant be trusted , and you are tacitly agreeing in between more weasel words what im saying is truth.
aye you can. If he wants peoples votes , then people first must judge him worthy. My judgement is he isnt worthy , and shouldnt be allowed anywhere near any form of power.
He is dishonest , breaks pledges as you break wind , and the basic of any relationship is trust. If there is no trust , you have nothing.
Boris Johnson inherently dishonest as are the Tory party that supported him. Starmer will I believe 'bend the truth' in order to achieve what he wants and that makes him not inherently dishonest, just like you who is bending what I have said to suit your narrative. The easy way to solve this conundrum is for you to give me an example of an actually lie of note from Starmer. |
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Post by thomas on Jun 25, 2023 11:59:47 GMT
Conversation over then. Hes dishonest , and cant be trusted , and you are tacitly agreeing in between more weasel words what im saying is truth.
aye you can. If he wants peoples votes , then people first must judge him worthy. My judgement is he isnt worthy , and shouldnt be allowed anywhere near any form of power.
He is dishonest , breaks pledges as you break wind , and the basic of any relationship is trust. If there is no trust , you have nothing.
Boris Johnson inherently dishonest as are the Tory party that supported him.
yawn. When asked a question about labour , labour supporters scream tory bad. Change the record ffs.
The dizzying dishonesty of Keir Starmer
The Labour leader has shredded just about every principle he ever claimed to hold.
Given all this pearl-clutching over the dishonesty of Johnson, often in relation to the sorts of fibs and spin politicians have always indulged in, it is striking just how muted the reaction has been to the even more flagrant deceptions of Sir Keir Starmer. Unlike Johnson, the Labour leader hasn’t simply made a series of bombastic, exaggerated statements – he has shredded just about every principle he once claimed to hold dear.
This week, Starmer admitted on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that he will abandon his pledge to scrap university tuition fees – a promise he made to the Labour membership in 2020. Other pledges he has jettisoned from his Labour leadership campaign include nationalising the utilities firms, increasing income tax on high earners, keeping freedom of movement with the EU and banning outsourcing in the NHS.
The about-turns are dizzying. They are not just everyday untruths. Imagine if Boris had campaigned to Get Brexit Done, and instead took us into the Euro. That is the level of political deception Keir has stooped to. So where is all the anger from the chattering classes?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 12:53:49 GMT
Boris Johnson inherently dishonest as are the Tory party that supported him.
yawn. When asked a question about labour , labour supporters scream tory bad. Change the record ffs.
The dizzying dishonesty of Keir Starmer
The Labour leader has shredded just about every principle he ever claimed to hold.
Given all this pearl-clutching over the dishonesty of Johnson, often in relation to the sorts of fibs and spin politicians have always indulged in, it is striking just how muted the reaction has been to the even more flagrant deceptions of Sir Keir Starmer. Unlike Johnson, the Labour leader hasn’t simply made a series of bombastic, exaggerated statements – he has shredded just about every principle he once claimed to hold dear.
This week, Starmer admitted on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that he will abandon his pledge to scrap university tuition fees – a promise he made to the Labour membership in 2020. Other pledges he has jettisoned from his Labour leadership campaign include nationalising the utilities firms, increasing income tax on high earners, keeping freedom of movement with the EU and banning outsourcing in the NHS.
The about-turns are dizzying. They are not just everyday untruths. Imagine if Boris had campaigned to Get Brexit Done, and instead took us into the Euro. That is the level of political deception Keir has stooped to. So where is all the anger from the chattering classes?
OK something to work with. Abandoning a pledge, promise, statement is not a lie it is a sensible solution unforeseen events. Starmer cannot lie about his pledges until he gets into power and fails to deliver his manifesto. The promise on tuition fees happened in 2020 a lot has happened since then, should he just go ahead with it 'because he promised' and therefore borrow more money or should he take the pragmatic view? you did not mention "But he now said the party was looking at alternative options for funding" was that an oversight or an attempt to manipulate the narrative? Re-nationalisation would, due to the economy be too expensive, and waiting for franchises to expire will cost very little, sounds sensible. Not negotiating free movement with the EU would, according to the Brexiteers would be unpatriotic and therefore a no no in the current climate, that will change though. I don't like the fact that under Starmer the private sector will have it profit making claws in our NHS but Starmer will not sell off the NHS in it's entirity as the Tories are attempting to do. Johnson did not get Brexit done and never would have, he lied to you. My point is, unfortunately, that a Labour government will be inherently better than the Tories. |
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Post by om15 on Jun 25, 2023 13:19:22 GMT
Will it, we have a few clues about Sir Kier's plans.
To award a Peerage to Sir Tony Blair despite the fact that he lied to Parliament over WMD which resulted in the deaths of 47 British servicemen and countless Iraqis, that he instigated unlimited immigration to quote " rub the Tory noses in it" and that he destroyed education by sending children to leftie indoctrinated universities to amass huge debts instead of learning how to weld.
To award a Peerage to Gordon Brown, the fervent supporter of devolution to the detriment of England and who sold off the Countries Gold reserves at rock bottom prices to fund socialist policies that didn't work.
So in this particular instance I think that you might be rather mistaken.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2023 13:50:14 GMT
Will it, we have a few clues about Sir Kier's plans. To award a Peerage to Sir Tony Blair despite the fact that he lied to Parliament over WMD which resulted in the deaths of 47 British servicemen and countless Iraqis, that he instigated unlimited immigration to quote " rub the Tory noses in it" and that he destroyed education by sending children to leftie indoctrinated universities to amass huge debts instead of learning how to weld. To award a Peerage to Gordon Brown, the fervent supporter of devolution to the detriment of England and who sold off the Countries Gold reserves at rock bottom prices to fund socialist policies that didn't work. So in this particular instance I think that you might be rather mistaken. I agree about Blair and I have never said different but he has not been convicted of any crimes. I think you will find that the increases in immigration started under Major and has continued on an upward spiral since. "As Alan Beattie says in the FT , holding onto gold is a largely pointless activity for governments. If you convert the gold to money you can at least earn interest and that’s what happened to the money which the government made from the sell-off: it was invested in foreign currency interest-bearing assets , 40% in dollars, 40% in euros and 20% in yen". FT You need to stop listening to the Tory press. "The weekend Gordon Brown saved the banks from the abyss". "When the moment of maximum danger came, Brown had the right diagnosis and did largely the right things". Guardian. Brown did not get everything right but he knew about money. |
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Post by om15 on Jun 25, 2023 14:06:38 GMT
I'm afraid that I consider quotes from the Guardian with less consideration than I might with quotes from the Beano.
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