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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 22, 2023 11:31:37 GMT
I think the author raised a very interesting idea - with the rise of populist politicians across the continent and the increasing power that the Eastern countries (who are far more conservative) wield, will the EU in the future be the bastion of progressive liberal policies?. And if it doesnt how will the current Labour Party deal with that change in approach - will they see the US with its increasingly progressive political establishment as more comfortable bedfellows?. You may well be right, but I think from a geopolitical point of view that would be a mistake. Especially if the US withdraw from Nato. |
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Post by Toreador on Jun 22, 2023 11:59:55 GMT
As far as "The Left" are concerned, it tends to be the Nutty Left who are orientated towards Brexit, the Militant types, but of course these people now have very little say in todays Labour Party. Generally the same in the Tory Party, its mostly the populist Right who are Brexit supporters, the result is that a huge middle ground which encompasses both Left and Right are the pro Europe crowd, which I think tells you something. Its minority interest / presure group politics ... either that it does not fit in with our vision of a Socialist Utopia, or that we dont want to associate with foreigners, especially them "Froggies". The Neanderthal's of politics, the ones who live in Lala land Astounding that you, of all people, talk about the "nutty left". You, Sidney Fiddler, are one of the most fanatic left wingers I have come across, you never stop. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 22, 2023 12:15:40 GMT
The left are natural Brexiteers and the right natural Remainers. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 22, 2023 12:45:14 GMT
As far as "The Left" are concerned, it tends to be the Nutty Left who are orientated towards Brexit, the Militant types, but of course these people now have very little say in todays Labour Party. Generally the same in the Tory Party, its mostly the populist Right who are Brexit supporters, the result is that a huge middle ground which encompasses both Left and Right are the pro Europe crowd, which I think tells you something. Its minority interest / presure group politics ... either that it does not fit in with our vision of a Socialist Utopia, or that we dont want to associate with foreigners, especially them "Froggies". The Neanderthal's of politics, the ones who live in Lala land Astounding that you, of all people, talk about the "nutty left". You, Sidney Fiddler, are one of the most fanatic left wingers I have come across, you never stop. you can't be expected to have a serious debate with someone who's called sidfiddler, just as well he never used a 'k' instead of s. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 22, 2023 12:50:25 GMT
LOL... poor andy he can't get to grips with the fact the EU is all but finished, many more members (the top contributors) are already making their own Exit plans, the old EU elite gravy train is running out of steam, we'll need more than the SFO to sort out their corruption, it will be on a scale we've never seen the likes of. Have you read the article and have an opinion on it? i have read it. I agree broadly with the factual content. I remember the only party manifesto to promise an exit from the EEC was ‘the longest suicide note in history’ from Michael Foot. It is indeed incredible to think Labour once stood for unilateral withdrawal and such a pity their other policies were so barking mad no one could bring themselves to vote for them (i voted monster raving looney that year, largely because compared to Foot Sutch was reasonable, soft spoken and eminently sensible) I agree with a post earlier in the thread that it was Maastricht that exposed the lie but in my case it was the insistence that subsidiarity would limit the impact of the new union whilst its feral supporters went all out on the offensive using the single market as a reason for taking control of production away from nation states, destroying identity and individuality in tbe name of euro-standardisation Nowhere was this more sickeningly obvious than the automotive sector where individual identity was extinguished in a rush to produce the same crap continent wide. I am not convinced of the author’s projections because i am too sceptical of the hand of verhofstadt and his eurofederalist pals Perhsps if we hung him, and burned the nice little perks packages like special tax rates and pension perks for MEPs, and instead gave them what they are actually worth, which is about a third of the amount earned by a deliveroo pizza delivery gig economy worker, i might feel attracted to the proposal. Not until |
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Post by wapentake on Jun 22, 2023 12:54:08 GMT
what are you saying Andrew”Old thickos”? |
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Post by vlk on Jun 22, 2023 12:59:39 GMT
It can be compared to how the left and the right views the Soviet Union and how they view Russia.
Many lefties used to think of the SU as an example how to run a country when as the same people today can't stand Putin's Russia.
The right considered the SU as an enemy when as many right-wingers think of today's Russia as a counter balance to the insane wokeism in the west.
Of course there are people who think that whatever the regime Russia is always right. We've had people like that on this forum too.
I prefer the view that no matter who's in charge Russia is always wrong.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 22, 2023 13:08:36 GMT
It was only the lefty trade unions who wanted out of the EU, only because their laws could supersede their own, and let's face it the Unions wont be told what to do if it doesn't suit their agenda.
The EU had the upper hand over Unions, and for that reason, and that reason alone they were the only lefties who wanted to leave the EU, they want to take back FULL control, just like they are doing now.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 22, 2023 13:08:52 GMT
what are you saying Andrew”Old thickos”? No, I wasn't, but there was a correlation between intelligence and remain. I think more than that of left and right. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2023 13:20:13 GMT
what are you saying Andrew”Old thickos”? No, I wasn't, but there was a correlation between intelligence and remain. I think more than that of left and right. Dressing up like a smurf and insisting on a legal dictatorship is pretty dumb.
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Post by wapentake on Jun 22, 2023 13:47:35 GMT
No, I wasn't, but there was a correlation between intelligence and remain. I think more than that of left and right. Dressing up like a smurf and insisting on a legal dictatorship is pretty dumb.
What you mean you think remain voters are more intelligent? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 22, 2023 14:26:33 GMT
No, I wasn't, but there was a correlation between intelligence and remain... Well, according to Remnants anyway.  |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 22, 2023 14:35:28 GMT
It was only the lefty trade unions who wanted out of the EU, only because their laws could supersede their own, and let's face it the Unions wont be told what to do if it doesn't suit their agenda. The EU had the upper hand over Unions, and for that reason, and that reason alone they were the only lefties who wanted to leave the EU, they want to take back FULL control, just like they are doing now. I wouldn't agree with that. I think that many socialists could see the damage to pay and conditions that would be done by unconstrained mass immigration. Indeed, many on the right could see that. And we have indeed seen that play out. Albeit that it's now being corrected (well, until Starmer puts the boot into the working class again). |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 22, 2023 14:47:41 GMT
It was only the lefty trade unions who wanted out of the EU, only because their laws could supersede their own, and let's face it the Unions wont be told what to do if it doesn't suit their agenda. The EU had the upper hand over Unions, and for that reason, and that reason alone they were the only lefties who wanted to leave the EU, they want to take back FULL control, just like they are doing now. I wouldn't agree with that. I think that many socialists could see the damage to pay and conditions that would be done by unconstrained mass immigration. Indeed, many on the right could see that. And we have indeed seen that play out. Albeit that it's now being corrected (well, until Starmer puts the boot into the working class again). The EU could 'have' stepped in with Union strikes, they could have imposed many obstacles to stop the Unions bringing the UK to a standstill, however the Unions are taking advantage of the fact the EU are no longer a obstacle, hence the reason they wanted them .... GONE. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 22, 2023 14:48:42 GMT
I forgot to say 'Lefty Unions', who hate to be dictated to. ^^
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