|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 19, 2023 8:29:36 GMT
The government says:
"In recognition of its significance, the Holocaust is the only historic event which is compulsory within the history curriculum. Pupils must be taught about it at at Key Stage 3 (usually when pupils are aged 13-14). The Holocaust has been a named topic within the history curriculum since the first curriculum of 1991."
What about the psychological effect of exposure to such horrible acts of cruelty and barbarity on vulnerable and impressionable young teenagers who are barely into puberty. They could have nightmares for weeks. I know I did when I first saw the newreels of the liberation of Belsen in the TV series 'War in the Air'.
|
|
|
Post by Hutchyns on Jun 19, 2023 8:57:55 GMT
More psychological damage might be done by the Drag Queen who was reading the history book to them !
It should be up to the parents. If you'd rather your kids went to a school that put more emphasis on Stalin and the gulags and a bit less on the Holocaust, then that's the place to send Janet & John. The problem is with the State getting its tentacles into education and imposing a one size fits all history lesson on the nations kids.
Home schooling is the only alternative to Leftist indoctrination that pervades the whole school day. Year after year of the Socialist narrative ..... no wonder Starmer and the Scottish and Welsh Leftists all want votes for 16 year olds. If for the rest of your life you're going to be yelling 'Nazi' at everyone who doesn't use your preferred pronouns, then a little basic Holocaust understanding is surely an essential ?
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 19, 2023 9:09:09 GMT
Interestingly the decision to require the H as a compulsory subject was made by a Conservative government in 1991. At the same time the decision was made to place it in KS3, something that many teachers opposed as unsuitable subject matter for pupils of that age.
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Jun 19, 2023 9:16:21 GMT
The government says:
"In recognition of its significance, the Holocaust is the only historic event which is compulsory within the history curriculum. Pupils must be taught about it at at Key Stage 3 (usually when pupils are aged 13-14). The Holocaust has been a named topic within the history curriculum since the first curriculum of 1991."
What about the psychological effect of exposure to such horrible acts of cruelty and barbarity on vulnerable and impressionable young teenagers who are barely into puberty. They could have nightmares for weeks. I know I did when I first saw the newreels of the liberation of Belsen in the TV series 'War in the Air'.
I think most pupils get their information from alternative sources. We were never taught about the holocaust to my recall at school. It was discussed at playground level as one or two got hold of books and passed on the info. I shudder to think what is discussed at playground level these days.
|
|
|
Post by piglet on Jun 19, 2023 9:28:20 GMT
Of course it should, and the wider conflict be taught namely ww2 and why it happened. Come to think of it how can you do that and not ww1? When i was at school in the 60 and early 70s all we were taught is kings and queens.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 10:29:23 GMT
When I was at school we were not specifically taught about the Holocaust and it was barely mentioned. We were taught about WW2 but from a very anglo-centric perspective. It was all about Britain did this and Britain did that. The eastern front was barely mentioned at all. None of this was taught until our last year when we were aged 15-16
I think it is right that the holocaust be taught in schools, but age 15-16 would be a better age for it as kids would be better able to grasp the enormity of it then.
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Jun 19, 2023 10:39:43 GMT
The government says:
"In recognition of its significance, the Holocaust is the only historic event which is compulsory within the history curriculum. Pupils must be taught about it at at Key Stage 3 (usually when pupils are aged 13-14). The Holocaust has been a named topic within the history curriculum since the first curriculum of 1991."
What about the psychological effect of exposure to such horrible acts of cruelty and barbarity on vulnerable and impressionable young teenagers who are barely into puberty. They could have nightmares for weeks. I know I did when I first saw the newreels of the liberation of Belsen in the TV series 'War in the Air'.
I think most pupils get their information from alternative sources. We were never taught about the holocaust to my recall at school. It was discussed at playground level as one or two got hold of books and passed on the info. I shudder to think what is discussed at playground level these days. I think Ike got it right when he called in the experts from Hollywood to film and document the atrocities when the allies first encountered these extermination camps. He stated he wanted it as a record of man's inhumanity and said in future years to come that some arseholes will try and deny that this thing ever happened. How right he was...
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 19, 2023 10:57:51 GMT
Of course it should, and the wider conflict be taught namely ww2 and why it happened. Come to think of it how can you do that and not ww1? When i was at school in the 60 and early 70s all we were taught is kings and queens. WW2 and WW1 are optional topics within the theme 'Challenges for Britain, Europe and the wider world 1901 to the present day'; they are not compulsory. Only the Holocaust is a compulsory topic.
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 19, 2023 11:11:08 GMT
When I was at school we were not specifically taught about the Holocaust and it was barely mentioned. We were taught about WW2 but from a very anglo-centric perspective. It was all about Britain did this and Britain did that. The eastern front was barely mentioned at all. None of this was taught until our last year when we were aged 15-16 I think it is right that the holocaust be taught in schools, but age 15-16 would be a better age for it as kids would be better able to grasp the enormity of it then. If you left school before 1990 it's very unlikely the Holocaust would have been part of the history curriculum, let alone a compulsory one.
The story of how that came about is an interesting one.
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Jun 19, 2023 11:52:04 GMT
When I was at school we were not specifically taught about the Holocaust and it was barely mentioned. We were taught about WW2 but from a very anglo-centric perspective. It was all about Britain did this and Britain did that. The eastern front was barely mentioned at all. None of this was taught until our last year when we were aged 15-16 I think it is right that the holocaust be taught in schools, but age 15-16 would be a better age for it as kids would be better able to grasp the enormity of it then. If you left school before 1990 it's very unlikely the Holocaust would have been part of the history curriculum, let alone a compulsory one.
The story of how that came about is an interesting one.
My recollection from being at school from 1941-1953, is that I never even heard the word "holocaust" and that was even covering a history period 1900-1945 for GCE.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 12:46:19 GMT
I would argue that the holocaust thing came out of America more recently. I was never taught about it at school, and I don't think I'm as old as some of you on here. I do vaguely recall asking my history teacher why everything being taught revolved around some sort of war or conflict. If I recall correctly (I've partied a lot since) it was actually English and British history being taught.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 13:09:03 GMT
When I was at school we were not specifically taught about the Holocaust and it was barely mentioned. We were taught about WW2 but from a very anglo-centric perspective. It was all about Britain did this and Britain did that. The eastern front was barely mentioned at all. None of this was taught until our last year when we were aged 15-16 I think it is right that the holocaust be taught in schools, but age 15-16 would be a better age for it as kids would be better able to grasp the enormity of it then. If you left school before 1990 it's very unlikely the Holocaust would have been part of the history curriculum, let alone a compulsory one.
The story of how that came about is an interesting one.
I left school in 1981 and the holocaust was definitely not on the curriculum back then. Though to be fair even amongst children knowledge of it was much more widespread in those days because it was often seen in film, documentary and drama. The way history was taught back then in the five years of my secondary education from 1976 to 1981 was chronological and highly Anglocentric once we got beyond the ancient world. We started out by learning about prehistoric man, then progressed to ancient Sumer and ancient Egypt. Then ancient Greece, then Rome, after which it became almost entirely Anglocentric. It became all about England. Even Scotland and Wales went entirely unmentioned unless England was involved, let alone the rest of the world. The great civilisations of ancient China, ancient India, or Central America we learned nothing about. Such historically important matters as the rise of Islamic empires, the Mongol invasions, the fall of Byzantium - nothing. India was for example never mentioned until the English started to arrive there. Then it was all about what England and later the UK did to India and in India, and anything the Indians did to us. And even in modern history, because the direct involvement of Britain was fairly peripheral, we were taught nothing about such an historically important phenomenon as the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution. The nearest we ever came to learning about that didn't take place in history lessons at all, but in English literature via the metaphor of Animal Farm by George Orwell. By the end of the first year we had learned about the coming of the Anglo-Saxons, Anglo-Saxon England, the Viking Invasions, King Alfred and King Canute. The second and third years I recall dealt with 1066 and the middle ages up to the end of the Wars of the Roses in 1485. By then we were allowed via so called "options" to opt into continuing to study certain subjects and opt out of others. I opted in to history. Anyone who didnt would have been taught nothing about modern history at all. The fourth year began with King Henry VII's victory at Bosworth Field and the beginning of the Tudor dynasty and took us up to the late 1700s. Wales never got a mention at all. Scotland only when it mattered to English history, as when King James VI of Scotland became King James I of England, or Scottish involvement in the English Civil War. We were taught a highly propagandised version of the Act of Union of 1707 and about the Jacobite risings of 1715 and 1745. The last year began with the French Revolution - curiously considering how Anglocentric the rest of our history lessons were - and ended with WW2, the last subject we studied, immediately preceded by World War I, and before that the Boer War. Before that most of our last year, once we got beyond the French Revolution and the American war of independence, focussed on the 19th century. Even then what we were taught was highly selective. For example, we were taught about the so-called Indian "mutiny", but nothing about the Opium Wars. We were taught about the Chartists but nothing at all about the Irish potato famine. And of course nothing about the later holocaust. Not Anglocentric enough I suppose. Whatever the reasons for the holocaust being on the curriculum, it is right that it should be so. All matters of world historical importance should be, including the coming into existence of Israel, the Bolshevik Revolution, the fall of Byzantium, The Islamic conquests, the Mongol invasions, the empire of Charlemagne, the rise of China, the Spanish Civil War, the colonial empires of other states and not just the British, and so on.
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 19, 2023 14:02:44 GMT
You have a remarkable ability to recollect things you were taught over 40 years ago, I'm sure most people including myself wouldn't be able to do that.
But then:
"Whatever the reasons for the holocaust being on the curriculum, it is right that it should be so."
As Denis Lawton, long-time Director the Institute of Education at Goldsmiths, wrote in Class, Culture and the Curriculum:
“The school curriculum (in the widest sense) is essentially a selection from the culture of a society”; thus prompting the “very fruitful, but occasionally obvious question…‘Who selects?’[6]"
In a very real sense the design of a national school curriculum is an act of cultural politics and is important to understand the motives of the designers and other relevant actors as well as the likely effect on the acted-upon (ie our children).
As Jane Roland Marin explains in Education Reconfigured: Culture, Encounter and Change:
"...“all curriculum decisions are cultural decisions ... struggles over curriculum are ultimately struggles about culture”[113]
But as for your demand that "All matters of world historical importance should be [included in the history NC), including (a very long list)", I suspect most of what you list could be more usefully presented to undergraduates rather than 13 and year olds.
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Jun 19, 2023 14:09:25 GMT
You have a remarkable ability to recollect things you were taught over 40 years ago, I'm sure most people including myself wouldn't be able to do that. But then: "Whatever the reasons for the holocaust being on the curriculum, it is right that it should be so." As Denis Lawton, long-time Director the Institute of Education at Goldsmiths, wrote in Class, Culture and the Curriculum: “The school curriculum (in the widest sense) is essentially a selection from the culture of a society”; thus prompting the “very fruitful, but occasionally obvious question…‘Who selects?’[6]" In a very real sense the design of a national school curriculum is an act of cultural politics and is important to understand the motives of the designers and other relevant actors as well as the likely effect on the acted-upon (ie our children). As Jane Roland Marin explains in Education Reconfigured: Culture, Encounter and Change: "...“all curriculum decisions are cultural decisions ... struggles over curriculum are ultimately struggles about culture”[113] But as for your demand that "All matters of world historical importance should be [included in the history NC), including (a very long list)", I suspect most of what you list could be more usefully presented to undergraduates rather than 13 and year olds. I have a remarkable ability to remember things I was taught up to 80 years ago, that ability also covers things I wasn't taught.
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 19, 2023 14:14:20 GMT
Thank you for sharing that with us today.
|
|