|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 22, 2023 9:58:14 GMT
This little exchange has given me an idea for a new thread about what led to Germany's particular brand of 'eliminationist' anti-Semitism and why it thrived there, to the extent of eventually becoming state policy.
Anti-Semitism was just as rife, if not as virulent in Britain, France, Poland and Russia but none of these societies (with the partial exception of the last) went to the extremes that Germany did.
"Why Germany? Why the Jews?"
Please wait for the new thread before commenting.
|
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 22, 2023 16:13:34 GMT
It must be told through the generations as the most relevant and recent example of what a combination of events and extreme nationaĺism and racism can do to human beings. Our own species. I find this narrative vague and uncompelling. The Third Reich was, using the modern terminology you would recognise, defeated by white supremacists from racist nationsTo me the big disasters of the 20th century seem to warn of the dangers of year-zero type mass movement cults It waq common thinking tgat nationalism abbdd racism was normal My point is that the holocaust was the beginning of the defeat of nationalism and racism. It exposed the two evils, one which caused 2 world wars, and made the developzd country more sensitive to the horrific damage they can do. The eradication of them isnt finished yet, but the tidal flow is strongly towards that end. |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Jun 22, 2023 16:17:39 GMT
I find this narrative vague and uncompelling. The Third Reich was, using the modern terminology you would recognise, defeated by white supremacists from racist nationsTo me the big disasters of the 20th century seem to warn of the dangers of year-zero type mass movement cults It waq common thinking tgat nationalism abbdd racism was normal My point is that the holocaust was the beginning of the defeat of nationalism and racism. It exposed the two evils, one which caused 2 world wars, and made the developzd country more sensitive to the horrific damage they can do. The eradication of them isnt finished yet, but the tidal flow is strongly towards that end. Like I said, I think that is complete nonsense. The third Reich was defeated by 'white supremacists' from 'racist' countries. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Jun 22, 2023 16:22:04 GMT
I find this narrative vague and uncompelling. The Third Reich was, using the modern terminology you would recognise, defeated by white supremacists from racist nationsTo me the big disasters of the 20th century seem to warn of the dangers of year-zero type mass movement cults It waq common thinking tgat nationalism abbdd racism was normal My point is that the holocaust was the beginning of the defeat of nationalism and racism. It exposed the two evils, one which caused 2 world wars, and made the developzd country more sensitive to the horrific damage they can do. The eradication of them isnt finished yet, but the tidal flow is strongly towards that end. Only in the cosmopolitan parts of the West . |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Jun 22, 2023 16:24:12 GMT
It waq common thinking tgat nationalism abbdd racism was normal My point is that the holocaust was the beginning of the defeat of nationalism and racism. It exposed the two evils, one which caused 2 world wars, and made the developzd country more sensitive to the horrific damage they can do. The eradication of them isnt finished yet, but the tidal flow is strongly towards that end. Like I said, I think that is complete nonsense. Th third Reich was defeated by 'white supremacists' from 'racist' countries. Indeed. The men who fought ( and died) for the Allies would be mocked as right wing gammons by woke lefties today. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 22, 2023 19:29:26 GMT
.... My point is that the holocaust was the beginning of the defeat of nationalism and racism. Only in western liberal democracies. In the rest of the world where 90% of the global population live both are thriving as never before.
|
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Jun 22, 2023 20:14:24 GMT
Nationalism defeated Adolf Hitler and this victory (for some reason) signals the end of nationalism?
It sounds very much like s story someone would make up in retrospect. Isn't this just, quite literally, Soviet propaganda?
|
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 23, 2023 7:44:38 GMT
The 2 wars werent rreally WORLD wars, of course.
But both had nationamism at their core.
Out of the second came the UN, the International court of Justice and NATO, a new world rules based order and laws about racism and genicide which are continuing to develop.
It will take time, but they are the right direction
|
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Jun 23, 2023 7:46:45 GMT
The 2 wars werent rreally WORLD wars, of course. But both had nationamism at their core. Out of the second came the UN, the International court of Justice and NATO, a new world rules based order and laws about racism and genicide which are continuing to develop. It will take time, but they are the right direction All giant anasthetics. |
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Jun 23, 2023 8:22:21 GMT
The 2 wars werent rreally WORLD wars, of course. But both had nationamism at their core. Out of the second came the UN, the International court of Justice and NATO, a new world rules based order and laws about racism and genicide which are continuing to develop. It will take time, but they are the right direction Lets take one - NATO. NATO wasn't set up as an anti-racist, anti-nationalist organisation, it was set up as a defensive pact between sovereign nations, to counter the threat of a Soviet Union - a Soviet union whose notional (official) spirit was 'internationalist' (ie anti nationalist) Even if what you outline were the case, it would only suggest that some kind of bureaucratic hijacking had taken place rather than being a real organic reflection of the nature and outcome of the WW2 conflict itself. If you listened to Radio Moscow during the cold war, the broad strokes of the historical theories you are now relating were freely available. For a period in the cold war, the western Left were using large chunks of Soviet historical theory- and it looks like it stuck. The Soviet Union lives on - in the west. |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jun 23, 2023 9:22:00 GMT
|
|
