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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 20, 2023 15:05:35 GMT
Can we take the discussion on the Allied Strategic Bomber Offensive somewhere else? It's an intriguing subject but out of place here. It might be good if Srb led it off with his remarks concerning its ineffectiveness accompanied by appropriate sources.
Thanks.
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Post by wapentake on Jun 20, 2023 15:14:05 GMT
I think it depends what they are taught. The bollocks story on ‘The Ascent Of Man’ can go straight down the toilet and must be replaced with the fact that the camps housed white german political opponents of Nazism, blacks, gays and Roma Gypsies as well as jews. The fact the BRITISH invented Concentration Camps is fine but only if it is made clear they were created to imprison white dutch Boer Terrorists …Except that isn’t true it was the Spanish in Cuba en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconcentration_policyThere are those on here and other forums love to berate the British for this ( not saying you do John.) |
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Post by Vinny on Jun 20, 2023 15:26:50 GMT
Can we take the discussion on the Allied Strategic Bomber Offensive somewhere else? It's an intriguing subject but out of place here. It might be good if Srb led it off with his remarks concerning its ineffectiveness accompanied by appropriate sources. Thanks. Ok, but just as the Holocaust did not have a memorial, the men of Bomber Command did not have one. Very soon, the events will have passed beyond living memory. In order to prevent the mistakes of the past, we must remember and never forget. Memorials help with that, as does education. So, hell yes, kids should be taught about the Holocaust and other horrors of war. |
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Post by Orac on Jun 20, 2023 15:34:50 GMT
Can we take the discussion on the Allied Strategic Bomber Offensive somewhere else? It's an intriguing subject but out of place here. It might be good if Srb led it off with his remarks concerning its ineffectiveness accompanied by appropriate sources. Thanks. Ok, but just as the Holocaust did not have a memorial, the men of Bomber Command did not have one. Very soon, the events will have passed beyond living memory. In order to prevent the mistakes of the past, we must remember and never forget. Memorials help with that, as does education. So, hell yes, kids should be taught about the Holocaust and other horrors of war. This is a fine sentiment, but on the other hand, the holocaust didn't have anything to do with the UK. For instance, I wouldn't really expect Ghana or Bermuda to have a holocaust memorial |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 20, 2023 15:41:59 GMT
I think it depends what they are taught. The bollocks story on ‘The Ascent Of Man’ can go straight down the toilet and must be replaced with the fact that the camps housed white german political opponents of Nazism, blacks, gays and Roma Gypsies as well as jews. The fact the BRITISH invented Concentration Camps is fine but only if it is made clear they were created to imprison white dutch Boer Terrorists …Except that isn’t true it was the Spanish in Cuba en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconcentration_policyThere are those on here and other forums love to berate the British for this ( not saying you do John.) ok i admit i had no idea they had them before we did. We did imprison Boers in the Boer war in some pretty grim shitholes. But i bow to the apparent fact we were not the first. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 20, 2023 15:43:31 GMT
Can we take the discussion on the Allied Strategic Bomber Offensive somewhere else? It's an intriguing subject but out of place here. It might be good if Srb led it off with his remarks concerning its ineffectiveness accompanied by appropriate sources. Thanks. Ok, but just as the Holocaust did not have a memorial, the men of Bomber Command did not have one. Very soon, the events will have passed beyond living memory. In order to prevent the mistakes of the past, we must remember and never forget. Memorials help with that, as does education. So, hell yes, kids should be taught about the Holocaust and other horrors of war. oh hell yeah. That i’ll happily drink to. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 20, 2023 16:43:29 GMT
Ok, but just as the Holocaust did not have a memorial, the men of Bomber Command did not have one. Very soon, the events will have passed beyond living memory. In order to prevent the mistakes of the past, we must remember and never forget. Memorials help with that, as does education. So, hell yes, kids should be taught about the Holocaust and other horrors of war. This is a fine sentiment, but on the other hand, the holocaust didn't have anything to do with the UK. For instance, I wouldn't really Ghana or Bermuda to have a holocaust memorial By the same token nobody would dream of demanding that Israel erects a monument to the victims of the Irish Potato Famine, or the Blitz for that matter. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 20, 2023 17:37:18 GMT
The idea of a Core National Curriculum was initially trailed by the Conservatives in their 1987 election manifesto as an answer to what they viewed as deteriorating educational standards resulting from the change to comprehensive education.
For the history part of the curriculum a History Working Group was formed under the auspices of the National Curriculum Council in January 1989 and published its first report later that year. To the disappointment of many interested parties the report did not recommend specifically that the Holocaust would be a focus for the curriculum which actually reflected the status in most schools up to that time.
At this point the special interest groups swung into action with formal submissions to the Secretary of State from the Holocaust Educational Trust, the Yad Vashem Charitable Trust, and a cross-party group of MPs. Judith Berman writes that this effort was accompanied by ‘careful behind-the scenes lobbying’ (Holocaust Agendas, Conspiracies and Industries? Issues and Debates in Holocaust Memorialization 28). Tony Kushner writes about the ‘remarkable display of ethnic lobbying’ on the part of the Jewish community and its leadership (The Holocaust and the Liberal Imagination 262). A final effort led by Greville Janner MP, co-founder of the HET and at that point the President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, took a slightly different but ultimately successful tack. Rather than focusing exclusively on ‘Jewish sufferings under Nazi oppression’ Janner’s team positioned Holocaust education as an ‘exemplar into the suffering experienced by minority groups in many parts of the world today’ (Submission on the teaching of World War II and the Rise and Fall of Nazi Germany in the National Curriculum – available in the BOD Archives).
A parliamentary debate ensued and following an intervention by the Secretary of State for Education the campaigners got their way and the HWG gave in to the inevitable. The Holocaust became a compulsory topic in secondary schools from September 1991.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 20, 2023 20:40:12 GMT
I've requested that all the posts about WW2 bombing be removed from this thread.
We'll see what happens.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 20, 2023 20:46:43 GMT
Ok, but just as the Holocaust did not have a memorial, the men of Bomber Command did not have one. Very soon, the events will have passed beyond living memory. In order to prevent the mistakes of the past, we must remember and never forget. Memorials help with that, as does education. So, hell yes, kids should be taught about the Holocaust and other horrors of war. This is a fine sentiment, but on the other hand, the holocaust didn't have anything to do with the UK. For instance, I wouldn't really expect Ghana or Bermuda to have a holocaust memorial We were at war with the bastards who did it. We should take pride in the fact that we fought the fuckers and remind everyone what the bastards did, so it never happens again. Our war against the Nazis helped to end the Holocaust. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 20, 2023 20:55:29 GMT
This is a fine sentiment, but on the other hand, the holocaust didn't have anything to do with the UK. For instance, I wouldn't really expect Ghana or Bermuda to have a holocaust memorial We were at war with the bastards who did it. We should take pride in the fact that we fought the fuckers and remind everyone what the bastards did, so it never happens again. Our war against the Nazis helped to end the Holocaust. Perhaps it did, but that wasn't why we fought it. This is why we fought it:
Our old Dad served all through the war in the RAF and for long after. If I'd asked him if he did it to save the Jews he'd have asked what I'd been smoking.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2023 21:04:38 GMT
We were at war with the bastards who did it. We should take pride in the fact that we fought the fuckers and remind everyone what the bastards did, so it never happens again. Our war against the Nazis helped to end the Holocaust. Perhaps it did, but that wasn't why we fought it. This is why we fought it:
Our old Dad served all through the war in the RAF and for long after. If I'd asked him if he did it to save the Jews he'd have asked what I'd been smoking.
We actually went to war to preserve the freedom and independence of Poland which of course we failed to do. But the Nazi horrors revealed at the wars end certainly gave a new moral dimension to all we were fighting for. Do you think the holocaust didnt matter because they were only Jews and not Britons? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 20, 2023 21:10:24 GMT
No I think the Holocaust didn't matter in the sense of why Britain conducted the war simply because almost nobody knew about it until it was almost over.
Churchill, Eden and the rest of the War Cabinet may have had some inkling but their considered opinion was that the best way to respond was to defeat Germany militarily, which they proceeded to do.
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Post by Tinculin on Jun 20, 2023 22:18:42 GMT
Yes, I think we should be taught the horrors of genocide.
Because those who do not learn the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 20, 2023 23:21:26 GMT
The government says:
"In recognition of its significance, the Holocaust is the only historic event which is compulsory within the history curriculum. Pupils must be taught about it at at Key Stage 3 (usually when pupils are aged 13-14). The Holocaust has been a named topic within the history curriculum since the first curriculum of 1991."
What about the psychological effect of exposure to such horrible acts of cruelty and barbarity on vulnerable and impressionable young teenagers who are barely into puberty. They could have nightmares for weeks. I know I did when I first saw the newreels of the liberation of Belsen in the TV series 'War in the Air'.
Which one? The London one of the German one? |
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