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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2023 20:01:19 GMT
There is no need. Free trade operates just fine without trading people. They are separate things and should be treated as such. No it doesn't, not with true free trade in all products. People aren't tradable products. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 27, 2023 20:08:30 GMT
No it doesn't, not with true free trade in all products. People aren't tradable products. I explained. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2023 20:22:24 GMT
People aren't tradable products. I explained. Free trade is about deregulation of the market and lifted restriction on imports and exports. There is absolutely no reason to include FoM other than to force it for the sake of it, so it should be dealt with as a separate matter and work from there. The people chose accordingly. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 27, 2023 20:30:36 GMT
Free trade is about deregulation of the market and lifted restriction on imports and exports. There is absolutely no reason to include FoM other than to force it for the sake of it, so it should be dealt with as a separate matter and work from there. The people chose accordingly. You can't have some countries able to undercut neighbours because they pay less. The ability to move between states ensures this can't happen. If you invite Poland to join the EU with its lower wages and you prevent its workers from moving to better paid jobs in other countries then you cause Poland to be by default cheaper than the neighbours whose markets it has open access to. Personally I don't think Poland should have joined as a complete member until its economy better matched existing members. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 27, 2023 21:31:31 GMT
There is no need. Free trade operates just fine without trading people. They are separate things and should be treated as such. No it doesn't, not with true free trade in all products. The States around the globe that are the most open to free trade do not have (or need) Freedom of Movement. They have strictly controlled immigration which is totally different. |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 27, 2023 22:28:55 GMT
You live in an area where you should know that before F0M officially started, there were already thousands of migrants working in the produce industry, either pickers or packers. You can say it was our fault but there was no political. will to stop it. Blair didn't give two hoots that the produce companies were threatening to shift their work to Spain and elsewhere. What was wrong with pickers and packers doing jobs we didn't want to do? Why would produce companies threaten to shift to Spain if they were getting the pickers and packers they needed. I can see why they might when the pickers were banned from the country. All the orchards around here are being grubbed up. There is no need for free trade which.... is orchestrated by a self serving dictatorship......it may have slipped your attention but we have free trade now with the rest of the globe including many EU members and not one tariff insight and our sovereinty intact. |
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Post by Toreador on Jun 28, 2023 5:39:32 GMT
You live in an area where you should know that before F0M officially started, there were already thousands of migrants working in the produce industry, either pickers or packers. You can say it was our fault but there was no political. will to stop it. Blair didn't give two hoots that the produce companies were threatening to shift their work to Spain and elsewhere. What was wrong with pickers and packers doing jobs we didn't want to do? Why would produce companies threaten to shift to Spain if they were getting the pickers and packers they needed. I can see why they might when the pickers were banned from the country. All the orchards around here are being grubbed up. Whoooooosh! Did you miss the bit about illegal immigrants working over here in full view of Blair's government |
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Post by Orac on Jun 28, 2023 6:30:21 GMT
Only in your dreams. They not only refused they riddiculed him. At least he was elected unlike the dictators of the EU....Not one of those in the EU high rankers havent neen total failures in the real world. Cameron fully understood the need for FoM in a truly free trade market. You can't have some countries able to undercut neighbours because they pay less. The ability to move between states ensures this can't happen. So your position now is there was no compromise and that's a good thing - and to get there you seem to be employing a rather eccentric definition of free trade that precludes the national control of territory. Soviet free trade? |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 28, 2023 6:48:59 GMT
No it doesn't, not with true free trade in all products. The States around the globe that are the most open to free trade do not have (or need) Freedom of Movement. They have strictly controlled immigration which is totally different. Can you point me to a free trade relationship that is open to everything each country produces? |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 28, 2023 6:51:20 GMT
What was wrong with pickers and packers doing jobs we didn't want to do? Why would produce companies threaten to shift to Spain if they were getting the pickers and packers they needed. I can see why they might when the pickers were banned from the country. All the orchards around here are being grubbed up. Whoooooosh! Did you miss the bit about illegal immigrants working over here in full view of Blair's government I missed it because you didn't mention illegal immigrants. |
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Post by Toreador on Jun 28, 2023 6:53:42 GMT
Whoooooosh! Did you miss the bit about illegal immigrants working over here in full view of Blair's government I missed it because you didn't mention illegal immigrants. Oh yes I did and you missed it and have missed it again. |
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Post by Orac on Jun 28, 2023 7:01:17 GMT
If you really wanted free trade in Europe the first reform you would looking at is disbanding the EU and allowing its current members to trade freely.
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Post by zanygame on Jun 28, 2023 7:01:33 GMT
Cameron fully understood the need for FoM in a truly free trade market. You can't have some countries able to undercut neighbours because they pay less. The ability to move between states ensures this can't happen. So your position now is there was no compromise and that's a good thing - and to get there you seem to be employing a rather eccentric definition of free trade that precludes the national control of territory. Soviet free trade? My position was that FoM was necessary for completely free trade for the reasons I gave. That the housing benefits and in work benefits in the UK alongside our universal language made us more attractive to unskilled workers than were other EU states. That the EU acknowledged this and offered a period with limited FoM to allow us to look at these and make changes. My definition of the free trade agreement in the EU might seem eccentric to you, but its correct. As I said if you wish to have free trade in all goods with no restrictions then FoM has to be part of the picture for the reasons I explained. Please try to remember that I am not the EU. I am simply explaining the where's and why's. |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 28, 2023 7:02:56 GMT
If you really wanted free trade in Europe the first reform you would looking at is disbanding the EU and allowing its current members to trade freely. LOL they are doing that for themselves now. It seems the remnants are the only ones who don't know. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 28, 2023 7:03:21 GMT
I missed it because you didn't mention illegal immigrants. Oh yes I did and you missed it and have missed it again. You said. You live in an area where you should know that before F0M officially started, there were already thousands of migrants working in the produce industry, either pickers or packers. You can say it was our fault but there was no political. will to stop it. Blair didn't give two hoots that the produce companies were threatening to shift their work to Spain and elsewhere. No mention of illegal. |
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