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Post by besoeker3 on Jun 25, 2023 15:16:50 GMT
One of the biggest issues I have seen with the many business plans that have been bought to me by would be entrepreneurs is the lack at looking at the market. Competition, pricing and even desirability of the product are not considered. A self cleaning toothbrush might seem desirable, but how many people would pay £12 for one. The other thing is protection. If you want investment you need to demonstrate that you can protect your product. No investor will put money into an invention so you can prove its popularity only to have the Chinese make it cheaper once it reaches scale. It's the first thing I do, to see what I can get to do a particular job for how much. About 6m ago I was looking at this with respect to a certain product and what I found was that it was a matter of how much of the business pie I was going to do. You take a product with a market price, there is so much of that money for selling it, so much for assembling it, then you take the pieces and the same is true. It all splits down so there is not one part of the job any more profitable than any other in terms of what is needed. The rest is down to you and if you can figure out a better way to do this or that job. For example jobs may include drilling holes in a box, screen printing, assembly of circuit boards and so on. This means you don't need a huge investment to start. What you can do is just do a small slice of it and subcontract the rest until you have the product selling in the market and then you can say buy another machine and then your profit per unit steps up a bit more and you do it piecemeal. It's why I'm 100% confident it can be done.
Also fuck what some tosser Brit investor thinks.I have said at the beginning that if you really want this to work the golden rule is to use as little of Britain's products and services as you can. Any time you do, see it as the weak link in the chain that can fuck the whole enterprise up. Why do you suppose so many businesses fail here and why so many work in China. This is the reason.
Your point about copying is also invalid. For my example, which I'm still minded to do when I have some time, the market already supplies the product. There are good ones, bad ones, ultra cheap ones, funky ones, you name it. All I need to do is pop onto the scene with my own version and then as the customer browses they might like my one and there again they might like a different one. If we were all stupid Brits who copy each other we would have a market of identical products, a bit like the UK's men's clothing market (any colour you like as long as it is black or grey). The next one to pop onto the market after mine could take inspiration from me and I'm happy they do, as I would take inspiration from what is on the market now. The thing is, if you can do it then you don't need to copy every aspect and make a clone. Like an artist you see someone using a particular idea, you like and respect it and then you use that idea , add in your bit and the market moves on. This is how we get progress. Everyone in the market is always modifying and improving their product to keep up. This market in China is a free market. You are as good as your product and your price. Also if you stuck a Made in England badge on it in China they would think wow , Ive not seen one of those before. It would be a bit of a novelty.
What about Patents? Good or not? What experience have you have or had? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 25, 2023 15:18:42 GMT
It's the first thing I do, to see what I can get to do a particular job for how much. About 6m ago I was looking at this with respect to a certain product and what I found was that it was a matter of how much of the business pie I was going to do. You take a product with a market price, there is so much of that money for selling it, so much for assembling it, then you take the pieces and the same is true. It all splits down so there is not one part of the job any more profitable than any other in terms of what is needed. The rest is down to you and if you can figure out a better way to do this or that job. For example jobs may include drilling holes in a box, screen printing, assembly of circuit boards and so on. This means you don't need a huge investment to start. What you can do is just do a small slice of it and subcontract the rest until you have the product selling in the market and then you can say buy another machine and then your profit per unit steps up a bit more and you do it piecemeal. It's why I'm 100% confident it can be done.
Also fuck what some tosser Brit investor thinks.I have said at the beginning that if you really want this to work the golden rule is to use as little of Britain's products and services as you can. Any time you do, see it as the weak link in the chain that can fuck the whole enterprise up. Why do you suppose so many businesses fail here and why so many work in China. This is the reason.
Your point about copying is also invalid. For my example, which I'm still minded to do when I have some time, the market already supplies the product. There are good ones, bad ones, ultra cheap ones, funky ones, you name it. All I need to do is pop onto the scene with my own version and then as the customer browses they might like my one and there again they might like a different one. If we were all stupid Brits who copy each other we would have a market of identical products, a bit like the UK's men's clothing market (any colour you like as long as it is black or grey). The next one to pop onto the market after mine could take inspiration from me and I'm happy they do, as I would take inspiration from what is on the market now. The thing is, if you can do it then you don't need to copy every aspect and make a clone. Like an artist you see someone using a particular idea, you like and respect it and then you use that idea , add in your bit and the market moves on. This is how we get progress. Everyone in the market is always modifying and improving their product to keep up. This market in China is a free market. You are as good as your product and your price. Also if you stuck a Made in England badge on it in China they would think wow , Ive not seen one of those before. It would be a bit of a novelty.
I'm sorry Baron but from my viewpoint you will never make a successful business in this haphazard way. There are a thousand factors against such an approach. Not least credibility and trust. Not to mention visibility. You are just way off the mark as to how it works, but I wish you luck. It works differently in the UK. I was describing the Chinese market which I've very familiar with. I tried to explain it to you from the results of my research. I know I am correct and therefore you are wrong. I've got all the prices of goods and services and seen it for myself. I've analysed it mathematically and it demonstrates it is a free market. This is how a free market is in its equilibrium and optimally functioning way. If you don't want to learn then you'll go down with the ship.
I said earlier if you want to play this game and win you don't use any more British suppliers and services as you have to and you have also got to think like them. The second part of this is the more difficult for the Brit as the Brit is fixed in his way and will see it as wrong. I'm different. I spent a lot of time studying philosophy in my youth so I can deal with this difference in system better than most. It's a tuition on how to think, and once you get that you can reorder your thinking to work in a foreign system. I suggested in posting the video of the Chinese factory that one should pay extra close attention to how that chap thinks. The reason I say this is not that it is in anything exceptional, so you may miss it entirely. It is what is typical over there, so understand him and the way he thinks is to know the way it works. If you must copy someone then he would be a good bet. I'll just point out one clue. See how his brain is all geared towards cost/value/customer requirement and preferences and zero on image. Youtube also has some factory tours of PCB manufacturing firms in the UK. If you want to compare and contrast you will see it. Don't just tell me I'm wrong without doing your own research to check.
A little tale for you to finish with on how China became the size it is now. The county started with a system of how to do stuff. Then some invaders turned up and settled in adjacent lands. The invaders had a different way of doing things. They did not overthrow the old system but integrated their system with the old system so the old system would be enriched by their new ideas without throwing out what previously worked from the old system. So here I am as a Brit turning up in their market and I do the same. I integrate with their already highly successful system and add in my bit of enrichment. Believe it or not, this is also how the Chinese would like to see Britain work with them in the current day. It is still doing this!
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Post by besoeker3 on Jun 25, 2023 15:24:56 GMT
I'm sorry Baron but from my viewpoint you will never make a successful business in this haphazard way. There are a thousand factors against such an approach. Not least credibility and trust. Not to mention visibility. You are just way off the mark as to how it works, but I wish you luck. It works differently in the UK. I was describing the Chinese market which I've very familiar with. How can you be very familiar with it if you have never been there? |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 25, 2023 15:36:32 GMT
I'm sorry Baron but from my viewpoint you will never make a successful business in this haphazard way. There are a thousand factors against such an approach. Not least credibility and trust. Not to mention visibility. You are just way off the mark as to how it works, but I wish you luck. It works differently in the UK. I was describing the Chinese market which I've very familiar with. I tried to explain it to you from the results of my research. I know I am correct and therefore you are wrong. I've got all the prices of goods and services and seen it for myself. I've analysed it mathematically and it demonstrates it is a free market. This is how a free market is in its equilibrium and optimally functioning way. If you don't want to learn then you'll go down with the ship.
I said earlier if you want to play this game and win you don't use any more British suppliers and services as you have to and you have also got to think like them. The second part of this is the more difficult for the Brit as the Brit is fixed in his way and will see it as wrong. I'm different. I spent a lot of time studying philosophy in my youth so I can deal with this difference in system better than most. It's a tuition on how to think, and once you get that you can reorder your thinking to work in a foreign system. I suggested in posting the video of the Chinese factory that one should pay extra close attention to how that chap thinks. The reason I say this is not that it is in anything exceptional, so you may miss it entirely. It is what is typical over there, so understand him and the way he thinks is to know the way it works. If you must copy someone then he would be a good bet. I'll just point out one clue. See how his brain is all geared towards cost/value/customer requirement and preferences and zero on image. Youtube also has some factory tours of PCB manufacturing firms in the UK. If you want to compare and contrast you will see it. Don't just tell me I'm wrong without doing your own research to check.
A little tale for you to finish with on how China became the size it is now. The county started with a system of how to do stuff. Then some invaders turned up and settled in adjacent lands. The invaders had a different way of doing things. They did not overthrow the old system but integrated their system with the old system so the old system would be enriched by their new ideas without throwing out what previously worked from the old system. So here I am as a Brit turning up in their market and I do the same. I integrate with their already highly successful system and add in my bit of enrichment. Believe it or not, this is also how the Chinese would like to see Britain work with them in the current day. It is still doing this!
The fly in your ointment Baron is that most of what China makes they make for the West. They rarely develop from scratch for their own market. So if you want to make your stuff in China or using Chinese components in your shed you are still selling into a market you wont succeed in with you current methods. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 25, 2023 16:00:25 GMT
It works differently in the UK. I was describing the Chinese market which I've very familiar with. I tried to explain it to you from the results of my research. I know I am correct and therefore you are wrong. I've got all the prices of goods and services and seen it for myself. I've analysed it mathematically and it demonstrates it is a free market. This is how a free market is in its equilibrium and optimally functioning way. If you don't want to learn then you'll go down with the ship.
I said earlier if you want to play this game and win you don't use any more British suppliers and services as you have to and you have also got to think like them. The second part of this is the more difficult for the Brit as the Brit is fixed in his way and will see it as wrong. I'm different. I spent a lot of time studying philosophy in my youth so I can deal with this difference in system better than most. It's a tuition on how to think, and once you get that you can reorder your thinking to work in a foreign system. I suggested in posting the video of the Chinese factory that one should pay extra close attention to how that chap thinks. The reason I say this is not that it is in anything exceptional, so you may miss it entirely. It is what is typical over there, so understand him and the way he thinks is to know the way it works. If you must copy someone then he would be a good bet. I'll just point out one clue. See how his brain is all geared towards cost/value/customer requirement and preferences and zero on image. Youtube also has some factory tours of PCB manufacturing firms in the UK. If you want to compare and contrast you will see it. Don't just tell me I'm wrong without doing your own research to check.
A little tale for you to finish with on how China became the size it is now. The county started with a system of how to do stuff. Then some invaders turned up and settled in adjacent lands. The invaders had a different way of doing things. They did not overthrow the old system but integrated their system with the old system so the old system would be enriched by their new ideas without throwing out what previously worked from the old system. So here I am as a Brit turning up in their market and I do the same. I integrate with their already highly successful system and add in my bit of enrichment. Believe it or not, this is also how the Chinese would like to see Britain work with them in the current day. It is still doing this!
The fly in your ointment Baron is that most of what China makes they make for the West. They rarely develop from scratch for their own market. So if you want to make your stuff in China or using Chinese components in your shed you are still selling into a market you wont succeed in with you current methods. Why is that? the market I would be selling to is very global in nature. The e-commerce site I use is very transparent. You can see who buys what and it is a right mixed bag. You might sell to an Indian, an Indonesian, someone from Africa, you name it, they are all customers and generally very happy with the merchandise, often giving it 5/5. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 25, 2023 16:31:33 GMT
The fly in your ointment Baron is that most of what China makes they make for the West. They rarely develop from scratch for their own market. So if you want to make your stuff in China or using Chinese components in your shed you are still selling into a market you wont succeed in with you current methods. Why is that? the market I would be selling to is very global in nature. The e-commerce site I use is very transparent. You can see who buys what and it is a right mixed bag. You might sell to an Indian, an Indonesian, someone from Africa, you name it, they are all customers and generally very happy with the merchandise, often giving it 5/5. That's why I pointed out scalability Baron. Selling single units through EBAY or Amazon might make you a living but its not a something a million people aren't already doing. How can you scale this up to a business? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 25, 2023 16:54:17 GMT
Why is that? the market I would be selling to is very global in nature. The e-commerce site I use is very transparent. You can see who buys what and it is a right mixed bag. You might sell to an Indian, an Indonesian, someone from Africa, you name it, they are all customers and generally very happy with the merchandise, often giving it 5/5. That's why I pointed out scalability Baron. Selling single units through EBAY or Amazon might make you a living but its not a something a million people aren't already doing. How can you scale this up to a business? You can increase your revenue by taking on more of the pie, e.g. probably for a few grand you could buy an injection moulding machine (even make one if you want!) so something like that would become more worth it as you sell more. You could increase your product range. You could make your product available on more markets. If you wanted to sell more you could bring your product range into the mass market segment but that required another level of investment. You would be looking at a custom injection mounding, your circuit would be a custom ASIC chip, your production line would be bins of raw materials at one end with finished products at the other and you personally would be a robotics expert. They can even package them and stamp an address on it, so the output goes directly into the post. You would need machine quality tests as well and is really at the expert end of matters, but fun to learn. Also there is investment in the design itself. The better the design the more it sells so you get customer feedback and fiddle accordingly. If you have a really smart idea you can always patent it. The great thing about how it works is you don't need to be an expert to start with. You need patience, intelligence and the time to work on it. You learn on the job. As you get better at it so your market rep improves, you become a known name and I dare say you may well find some really cool people who will ask you for a job. It kind of comes to you eventually if you prove yourself. |
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Post by bancroft on Jun 25, 2023 19:42:26 GMT
Probably because it is not worth it.
Self praise is no recommendation, but 60 years ago I trained as a marine engineer and if you give me two tin cans, a length of pipe and a pint of petrol and I will make them run from one side of the room to the other. I am not bragging, that is simply the way I and tens of thousands of others were trained. It was fun. But these days, some lad can press a button and have fifty such devices produced in the time it would take me to get my boiler suit on and screw a Senior Service into my face.
If anyone wants to make money out of the garden shed, put in an armchair and type writer and write a book
Interesting and on the book thing that can be tricky writing a book as the Depeche Mode song goes, I know I tried It's just time to pay the price For not listening to advice And deciding in your youth On the policy of truth Later It's too late to change events It's time to face the consequence For delivering the proof In the policy of truth |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 25, 2023 19:57:05 GMT
You can see how the Brits did it years ago.
Today there is a Facebook page:
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Post by borchester on Jun 25, 2023 22:27:29 GMT
Bugger a Yorkshire man bult a stream powered motorcycle in his shed which reached over 100mph in just over 3 seconds, I will try another link if possible I hope this one works if not it is on Facebook the bike is called " Force of Nature " superbly engineered and designed . www.facebook.com/StraightlinersNewsChannel/videos/this-is-the Blast that does not work either Do you mean this chap ?
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Post by Handyman on Jun 26, 2023 9:07:45 GMT
Bugger a Yorkshire man bult a stream powered motorcycle in his shed which reached over 100mph in just over 3 seconds, I will try another link if possible I hope this one works if not it is on Facebook the bike is called " Force of Nature " superbly engineered and designed . www.facebook.com/StraightlinersNewsChannel/videos/this-is-the Blast that does not work either Do you mean this chap ?
No afraid not this man is more modern just set a world drag race record with his bike in Australia I don't have much success when posting links , if interested you can find him via his name Graham Sykes Stream Rocket Bike |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 26, 2023 9:23:23 GMT
No afraid not this man is more modern just set a world drag race record with his bike in Australia I don't have much success when posting links , if interested you can find him via his name Graham Sykes Stream Rocket Bike Here is another guy I have found Sylvester Roper, born in 1823 in New Hampshire. During the Civil War, Roper worked in the Springfield Armory, where his interest turned to steam power. In 1868, Roper built a steam-powered motorcycle. |
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