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Post by jonksy on Jun 16, 2023 18:14:42 GMT
I wasn't on about Boris I was talking about the ringpeieces Sunak has to have on his side. They won't do it for Jack and that is for sure. |
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Post by wapentake on Jun 16, 2023 18:43:19 GMT
No reply was the answer to this You are of course under no obligation whatsoever to reply to any post as is anyone but as a declared liberal I’m surprised you can stand by and not condemn Harperson’s guilty verdict before proceedings started,whoever it is in the dock and whatever disdain you hold them as people or their political views everyone is entitled to a fair hearing and this in whole or part clearly was not. Apologies, I missed that. Not trying to avoid anything. I only browse here and post occasionally. Most of the conversation on here is not to my taste, so I tend to skim read. To be honest, I think that every MP would have had an opinion on what had occurred, as they were witness to it. We'd all seen the drama play out - I don't think that anyone on this board changed their mind as a result of the enquiry. It's a pretty unusual circumstance where the witnesses are also the judges, however they are not the jury as well, the HoC is. As such they are never going to be "independent", they already knew the events that had occurred. The enquiry was the opportunity to investigate and for Boris to give his version of events. What additional did we learn from his testimony? The committee was appointed by Boris, as was the enquiry. The seven members were also "unanimous" in the outcome, so to try and single out the chair and say "it's all her fault" is at best disingenuous and at worst seeking to undermine the process. (I'm surprised at you name calling her, I thought you were more respectful than that.) I was surprised at the severity of the recommendation, but I understand that it was a combination of both the offence, plus his trying to undermine and threaten the committee. Rather interestingly he has asked today for people not to vote against it so that the report gets nodded through unapposed. That way he avoids the vote. He knew that he didn't have much support so best not to expose that (also the reason he resigned last week rather than defend himself) as he was going to lose bigly. The speculation by some earlier in the thread that the vote may have been close was wishful thinking by some. Thanks for the reply,yes I understand they were the judges and not the jury but isn’t it relevant that in a trial a judge declaring someone guilty from the outset would only be acceptable in a place like N Korea. I’m not saying it’s entirely her fault but she has played a large part in this,I would add Bernard Jenkin by account is a hypocrite having engaged in similar behaviour to that of Boris. When you refer my calling Harman is it my calling her Harperson? If so it’s a hangover iirc from Private eye,and yes I have highlighted her (imo) less than savoury record and on matters I regard more serious than Boris and his shenanigans. As a once long term labour voter I learned that people like Blair her,Nugee and others are nothing short of seasoned liars and as regards the Iraq war should’ve faced a war crimes tribunal to determine their criminality or lack of. It is my opinion the whole Iraq adventure was enacted by a PM determined to play deputy to Sheriff Bush with disastrous consequences the deaths of tens of thousands the cause of so much terrorism and upsurge in hatred for the west that makes Boris’s lies and partying irrelevant. I have no illusions regarding the tories but I take the view they are obvious in their dishonesty I learnt labour tried and failed to hide behind a facade of political respectability and hold those they rely on for the bedrock of their party in utter contempt. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 16, 2023 19:17:40 GMT
I agree with a lot of that. I was no fan of the Iraq war, and was one of the deciding factors in me voting LibDem in 2010. Agreed that it was all being Bush's poodle, not a good look.
The only thing that I would pick up on is Bernard Jenkin. Now I'm no fan of his and I don't doubt that he has broken the rules. However, that was not what the enquiry about, the enquiry was about lying to parliament. Therefore your claim of his "similar behaviour" would appear to be erroneous, unless there is evidence of this?
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Post by patman post on Jun 16, 2023 20:34:47 GMT
I wasn't on about Boris I was talking about the ringpeieces Sunak has to have on his side. They won't do it for Jack and that is for sure. So who (in names and numbers) does Sunak have to have on his side? This weekend is going to be busy for many MPs, s it’s going to be interesting to see who — other thn those who got their preferments — really buys into this Boris bullshit. The Tory party could become as relevant as Jo Grimmond’s Liberals if it isn’t careful… |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 16, 2023 20:47:33 GMT
I wasn't on about Boris I was talking about the ringpeieces Sunak has to have on his side. They won't do it for Jack and that is for sure. This weekend is going to be busy for many MPs, s it’s going to be interesting to see who — other thn those who got their preferments — really buys into this Boris bullshit. The Tory party could become as relevant as Jo Grimmond’s Liberals if it isn’t careful… You tell me. And as for the tories becomong irelevant how many torys took to the knee to support a bloody career criminal? |
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Post by wapentake on Jun 16, 2023 21:43:04 GMT
I agree with a lot of that. I was no fan of the Iraq war, and was one of the deciding factors in me voting LibDem in 2010. Agreed that it was all being Bush's poodle, not a good look. The only thing that I would pick up on is Bernard Jenkin. Now I'm no fan of his and I don't doubt that he has broken the rules. However, that was not what the enquiry about, the enquiry was about lying to parliament. Therefore your claim of his "similar behaviour" would appear to be erroneous, unless there is evidence of this? The enquiry was set up around alleged partying contrary to the rules everyone else was expected to adhere to,I think that anyone with any sense of fairness and morality who had engaged in similar behaviour would decline a place judging others. Tbh I’m of the opinion that all this is a sideshow of the fantasy world Westminster has become,there is a a disconnect between those that operate there and the rest of us. There is widespread cynicism amongst the electorate toward politicians,and institutions once regarded as rock solid now perceived to be anything but and the percentages voting steadily falling. It’s not beyond the realms this could deteriorate more Ive been laughed at for saying this but we could end up with something much much worse in a search for something better. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 16, 2023 21:54:40 GMT
The enquiry was set up around alleged partying contrary to the rules everyone else was expected to adhere to The opening two paragraphs outlining the purpose of the enquiry show that you are incorrect : |
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Post by wapentake on Jun 16, 2023 22:02:25 GMT
The enquiry was set up around alleged partying contrary to the rules everyone else was expected to adhere to The opening two paragraphs outlining the purpose of the enquiry show that you are incorrect : Not really,is it not true that he denied any of the gatherings broke the rules and they have concluded he did and lied he disputes that,paint it whichever way you like but this really does hinge around those gatherings. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 16, 2023 22:48:19 GMT
It's undoubtedly about whether he lied about the social gatherings, but not whether he broke the Covid rules. There are a few on this thread who fail to understand the difference.
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Post by jonksy on Jun 17, 2023 7:00:29 GMT
It's undoubtedly about whether he lied about the social gatherings, but not whether he broke the Covid rules. There are a few on this thread who fail to understand the difference. So what is the difference between Boris or smarmer as they were both doing the same thing hash? |
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Post by wapentake on Jun 17, 2023 7:19:35 GMT
It's undoubtedly about whether he lied about the social gatherings, but not whether he broke the Covid rules. There are a few on this thread who fail to understand the difference. What you cannot escape Andrew is that in your heart you must know that someone declaring another guilty before proceedings commence cannot be right,I think your distaste for Boris stops you condemning that. And isn’t this the problem we face and it’s not just about this affair it’s the whole thing of shutting down people with a different opinions,cancelling people and history why is a so called liberal society becoming so illiberal? Surely everyone one has their rights but if you deny others in order promote some then that’s the problem,I accept there is another side to this but views become entrenched and somebody/ many lose out in the end. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 7:47:27 GMT
It's undoubtedly about whether he lied about the social gatherings, but not whether he broke the Covid rules. There are a few on this thread who fail to understand the difference. So what is the difference between Boris or smarmer as they were both doing the same thing hash? The difference is that the establishment Left are shameless hypocrites and gutter trash.
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Post by jonksy on Jun 17, 2023 7:56:03 GMT
So what is the difference between Boris or smarmer as they were both doing the same thing hash? The difference is that the establishment Left are shameless hypocrites and gutter trash.
The whole lot of Labour are nothing more than hypocritical self right-righteous left scum. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 17, 2023 8:21:44 GMT
It's undoubtedly about whether he lied about the social gatherings, but not whether he broke the Covid rules. There are a few on this thread who fail to understand the difference. What you cannot escape Andrew is that in your heart you must know that someone declaring another guilty before proceedings commence cannot be right,I think your distaste for Boris stops you condemning that. And isn’t this the problem we face and it’s not just about this affair it’s the whole thing of shutting down people with a different opinions,cancelling people and history why is a so called liberal society becoming so illiberal? Surely everyone one has their rights but if you deny others in order promote some then that’s the problem,I accept there is another side to this but views become entrenched and somebody/ many lose out in the end. I thought I'd addressed that, but my point was that all MPs were also witnesses including the committee members, so barring undermining the sovereignty of Parliament I'm not sure how you get around? Every MP would have had an opinion when the truth was uncovered. I agree it looks a bit odd, but they have followed the correct procedures as they should. Where I do feel a little for Boris is that he seems the only one being held accountable for the parties when others were more responsible, (and I note Simon Case's inappropriate nomination in Boris's honours) but he was the only one that lied parliament about it. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 17, 2023 8:42:48 GMT
It's undoubtedly about whether he lied about the social gatherings, but not whether he broke the Covid rules. There are a few on this thread who fail to understand the difference. So what is the difference between Boris or smarmer as they were both doing the same thing hash? To think we actually all saw pictures of Starmer through a window with a bottle beer in his hand, I haven't seen one picture of Boris with his slice of cake and wine glass, yet smarmer gets off scot-free. |
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