Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2022 15:25:13 GMT
Not all Labour voters or MPs opposed Brexit, that's the first bit of stupidity. A lie is not a lie until the claimed action has happened, therefore you are making a prediction and Starmer he not 'blatantly' lied, that's the second. We were better off in the EU than we are out of it, that's the third. Not a good view really. where did i say all labour mps and voters opposed brexit? Can you quote me on this , or shall we dismiss this as the usual horsehit straw men from people without a coherent arguemnt>
I made it explicitly clear 62 % of labour own constituencies voted FOR brexit , and as we all know people like wurzel corbyn were age old brexiters from old labour days , who was railroaded down the pro eu anti democratic starmer route in the GE2019.
Starmer is lying about his intentions. Anyone who believs different is away with the fairies.
wether we were better off in the eu or not , the fact is we had a debate , you lost , and then spent three years cheering on starmer and co trying and failing to overturn demcoracy. The public wont forget that.
I didn't say you did but you did use the collective term 'Labour' without any qualifications. The situation is much the same in the Tory party with some MPs already calling for us to return and there is more cchance of us returning, in some way, in Sunak's government if he sees it as way to 'save' the economy. You are still under the delusion that a statement is a lie before it happened or not, whichever the case may be. How can you overturn democracy by having a referendum, isn't that at the heart of a democracy? |
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Post by thomas on Oct 27, 2022 15:53:01 GMT
where did i say all labour mps and voters opposed brexit? Can you quote me on this , or shall we dismiss this as the usual horsehit straw men from people without a coherent arguemnt>
I made it explicitly clear 62 % of labour own constituencies voted FOR brexit , and as we all know people like wurzel corbyn were age old brexiters from old labour days , who was railroaded down the pro eu anti democratic starmer route in the GE2019.
Starmer is lying about his intentions. Anyone who believs different is away with the fairies.
wether we were better off in the eu or not , the fact is we had a debate , you lost , and then spent three years cheering on starmer and co trying and failing to overturn demcoracy. The public wont forget that.
I didn't say you did but you did use the collective term 'Labour' without any qualifications. The situation is much the same in the Tory party with some MPs already calling for us to return and there is more cchance of us returning, in some way, in Sunak's government if he sees it as way to 'save' the economy. You are still under the delusion that a statement is a lie before it happened or not, whichever the case may be. How can you overturn democracy by having a referendum, isn't that at the heart of a democracy? Generally when someone has to resort into pedantry they have lost the argument.
see my three simple democratic steps.
1. hold vote.
2. implement result
3. campaign again.
Remoaners and the likes of keir starmer and the labour leadership cant keep missing out step 2 and jumping to step 3 every time they lose a democratic vote.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 27, 2022 16:04:13 GMT
There should be another EU membership referendum, in 2057.
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 27, 2022 16:06:13 GMT
There should be another EU membership referendum, in 2057. You're optimistic Vin. I doubt the EU will be around in 2057. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 27, 2022 16:08:55 GMT
There should be another EU membership referendum, in 2057. the uk government says the northern irish can have one after 7 years. Whats good enough for them is good enough for the rest.
However , no matter how often you do it , each time , the result must be implemented before a new vote can take place.
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Post by colbops on Oct 27, 2022 16:40:28 GMT
FFS borkie , dont start steve off again .( not our srb steve this forums!)
Has patman apologised for nicking your catalytic converter? Did he take the wheel trims and stereo as well?
Shush.
I like Pat and don't want to force him to admit he drives a 14 year old Honda Jazz  That is nothing for him to be embarrassed about. It shows he has a big cock! |
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Post by Toreador on Oct 27, 2022 16:42:28 GMT
FFS borkie , dont start steve off again .( not our srb steve this forums!)
Has patman apologised for nicking your catalytic converter? Did he take the wheel trims and stereo as well?
Shush.
I like Pat and don't want to force him to admit he drives a 14 year old Honda Jazz His cat converter is more recent.  |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 27, 2022 19:22:51 GMT
There should be another EU membership referendum, in 2057. the uk government says the northern irish can have one after 7 years. Whats good enough for them is good enough for the rest.
However , no matter how often you do it , each time , the result must be implemented before a new vote can take place.
1975 EEC referendum, 2016 EU referendum. 41 year gap. That's how long we leavers had to wait despite multiple treaty changes and the end of the EEC with the creation of the EU in 1993. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Oct 27, 2022 21:41:25 GMT
Stick to the simple slogan - "Take back control". We can now control our own country. So we have for example left the CAP and CFP. That's to our advantage. But it does depend on our politicians taking advantage of our freedoms. Unfortunately they haven't - partly because there are some stupid people - like you - still trying to get us back into the EU. Shouldn't we ask the fishermen and farmers if this was a good idea for them? |
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Post by jonksy on Oct 27, 2022 21:59:54 GMT
Stick to the simple slogan - "Take back control". We can now control our own country. So we have for example left the CAP and CFP. That's to our advantage. But it does depend on our politicians taking advantage of our freedoms. Unfortunately they haven't - partly because there are some stupid people - like you - still trying to get us back into the EU. Shouldn't we ask the fishermen and farmers if this was a good idea for them? Why would we need to ask the fishermen? |
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 28, 2022 6:46:43 GMT
Stick to the simple slogan - "Take back control". We can now control our own country. So we have for example left the CAP and CFP. That's to our advantage. But it does depend on our politicians taking advantage of our freedoms. Unfortunately they haven't - partly because there are some stupid people - like you - still trying to get us back into the EU. Shouldn't we ask the fishermen and farmers if this was a good idea for them? I'm afraid that the agreements our govt made with the EU were not ideal - to put it mildly. I don't blame Boris for this because the main damage was done when the ludicrous May accepted the EU's diktat that we agree to a withdrawal agreement before any terms could be negotiated. This should have been flatly rejected. We didn't have to agree ANYTHING to leave the EU. We should have just left the EU and then negotiated bilateral trade agreements with the EU. Switzerland (which has land borders with several EU countries) is not in the EU (or the Single Market or the Customs Union) yet has basically free trade with the EU via over 100 separate trade deals. And remember that Switzerland's GDP/capita is higher than ANY EU country. The agreement on fishing was particularly bad - and I live in the West Country so I regularly hear the complaints from the fisherman on local radio/TV. They were badly let down. The starting point for the negotiations should have been the full reinstatement of the 12 mile zone. But I think that leaving the CAP has led to some benefits. For example hedgerows are being reinstated across the country. Under the CAP these were mainly chopped down to get the maximum SFP from the EU. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 28, 2022 7:07:06 GMT
the uk government says the northern irish can have one after 7 years. Whats good enough for them is good enough for the rest.
However , no matter how often you do it , each time , the result must be implemented before a new vote can take place.
1975 EEC referendum, 2016 EU referendum. 41 year gap. That's how long we leavers had to wait despite multiple treaty changes and the end of the EEC with the creation of the EU in 1993. Thats correct , but that wasnt because of any set principle of democratic timescale between referenda. That was simply becasue westmisnter took a we know best attitude , and denied you one until farage was breathing down the tories necks.
The northern irish principle of 7 years between referenda is set down in law by the british , so we now have a guideline.
I personally believe any treaty change that involves a country should be presented to the people in referenda , but then im not one who is scared of democracy.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 28, 2022 7:18:49 GMT
I respect your latest answer.
Good post, I quite agree.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2022 7:48:54 GMT
All this rubbish about when the public will have a new referendum is down to the MPs and public opinion not about time between them.
Are people really saying that if a party wins a GE on a ticket of having a new referendum, we should ignore it?
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Post by thomas on Oct 28, 2022 7:57:54 GMT
All this rubbish about when the public will have a new referendum is down to the MPs and public opinion not about time between them. Are people really saying that if a party wins a GE on a ticket of having a new referendum, we should ignore it? No im not sure anyone is saying that , im certianly not and im saying the opposite.
The problem arises with your labour parties duplicity. If labour win with starmer ambiguously saying lets make brexit work , and start taking the uk back into the EU by tieing us up to customs unions , ECJ jurisdiction and all the rest , then of course that will be where the trouble starts.
Lets remind ourselves of labour and starmers duplicity the last time. Hardcore brexiters were a minority , and many who voted brexit would have been open to listening to a moderate deal with the eu to leave where we could have possibly had a better brexit than what we have now. Starmer and labour/remoners willingness to attempt to overturn democracy scuppered that between 2016 to 2019 , and here we are.
Honesty is always the best policy , but the labour party dimwits wont accept that. I had more respect for dizzy jo swinson and her policy of overturning brexit if she got into power than starmer and labours 2019 brexit dogs breakfast.
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