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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 11, 2023 16:52:55 GMT
Are we witnessing the end of the Conservative party as we know it, or did it end years ago. Some people think so. Everything that's happened recently, turmoil at the heart of government, senior Tory MP's resigning, the collapse of the SNP. It all plays into the hands of Labour, and Starmer hasn't had to lift a finger. He's just sitting back and smiling.
I've listened to several commentators today who think this could be huge for British politics, that we could see the rise of a proper centre right party headed by Boris & Farage and supported by disgruntled Tory MP's. Yes I know Labour supporters will rubbish this, to be expected, but once you have got over the initial mud slinging, think about it. Why couldn't it work? Traditional Tory voters are screaming out for a centre right party, and given the result of the 2019 election, it would seem many erstwhile Labour voters are too.
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Post by Bentley on Jun 11, 2023 17:29:48 GMT
Centre left ‘ woke’ MPs have disguised themselves as Tories for a couple of decades Imo.
I think that Farage idea of Conservative is ‘ Singapore on Thames’ and Boris’s idea of a Conservative government is one with him as leader .
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 11, 2023 18:05:03 GMT
Centre left ‘ woke’ MPs have disguised themselves as Tories for a couple of decades Imo. I think that Farage idea of Conservative is ‘ Singapore on Thames’ and Boris’s idea of a Conservative government is one with him as leader . Possibly. But if they do start a new party they know to get any support it will have to be a pro Brexit centre right party. Anything else will be the same as what we already have and I think people are sick of it. It's certainly a gamble, but I think it's a gamble worth taking. Yes I know, easy for me to say. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 11, 2023 18:09:13 GMT
Not without direct democracy it won't, it was the only thing that got Farage over the line before. For that matter Boris as well.
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Post by sheepy on Jun 11, 2023 18:32:05 GMT
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Post by dappy on Jun 11, 2023 19:41:26 GMT
There could be much argument about where the Tories are on the spectrum and about labels about what is centre and what is left and what is right. But they feel like they would be pretty pointless.
Let’s ignore for a moment the obvious possibility (if not inevitability) of major internal conflict in any party trying to accommodate the egos of both Johnson and Farage. Let’s pretend they could somehow make it work.
I assume you would aspire to policies not that different to the existing Reform and UKIP and all the other similar parties. They together get around 5% of the vote. They failed to get a single seat anywhere in the country in the recent local elections (apart from two seemingly anomalous wards in derby).The history of Change UK shows just how difficult it is for new parties to break through. Say there is an election in October 2024. How many seats do you realistically think this party could win?
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 11, 2023 19:43:40 GMT
Sheepy, a week is a long time in politics, and that was years ago. This morning Farage said he has been in talks with people close to Boris. Who knows what that means, other than Boris is keeping his powder dry. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 11, 2023 20:00:33 GMT
Sheepy, a week is a long time in politics, and that was years ago. This morning Farage said he has been in talks with people close to Boris. Who knows what that means, other than Boris is keeping his powder dry. Well one thing for sure Red they are not jumping ship to another party but have instead called it a day on the Conservatives. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 11, 2023 20:01:15 GMT
There could be much argument about where the Tories are on the spectrum and about labels about what is centre and what is left and what is right. But they feel like they would be pretty pointless. Let’s ignore for a moment the obvious possibility (if not inevitability) of major internal conflict in any party trying to accommodate the egos of both Johnson and Farage. Let’s pretend they could somehow make it work. I assume you would aspire to policies not that different to the existing Reform and UKIP and all the other similar parties. They together get around 5% of the vote. They failed to get a single seat anywhere in the country in the recent local elections (apart from two seemingly anomalous wards in derby).The history of Change UK shows just how difficult it is for new parties to break through. Say there is an election in October 2024. How many seats do you realistically think this party could win? Dappy, political left and right cant be ignored, that's what it's all about. For ages Tory voters have been saying the conservative party is no longer Conservative and you shouldn't need me to tell you this. According to the OBR we are currently enjoying the highest tax burden for 70 years, and we all know immigration is out of control, this is under a supposedly conservative government. I am very aware how difficult it is to get a new party off the ground, I'm reminded of the SDP. But we currently have a choice of a centre leaning Labour party and a centre leaning Tory party. What a choice. Both Farage and Boris have support in the country, and support from some MP's, how many? Who knows, at the moment they are keeping their cards close their chests, but hopefully something is stirring. because some people are sick of having two centrist parties to vote for. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 11, 2023 20:03:22 GMT
Sheepy, a week is a long time in politics, and that was years ago. This morning Farage said he has been in talks with people close to Boris. Who knows what that means, other than Boris is keeping his powder dry. Well one thing for sure Red they are not jumping ship to another party but have instead called it a day on the Conservatives. Maybe, we'll see.  |
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Post by dappy on Jun 11, 2023 20:22:01 GMT
Policies are important of course Red. Labels as to exactly what is defined as right left or centre perhaps less so. Actually you could well argue that the Tories have moved significantly to the right on many matters - basically being taken over by UKIP. I relistened to Griffins Question Time appearance the other day. It was striking just how similar on so many issues his language was to the language currently being spoken by Tory Ministers and MPs. In those areas at least what was then shockingly far right has now (sadly in my view) become mainstream.
But that wasn’t the point I wanted to explore with you. You evaded the question I asked. In an election in 15 months time, how many seats could a party lead by some combination of Farage and Johnson realistically win?
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Post by dappy on Jun 11, 2023 21:39:53 GMT
Presumably none then….
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 11, 2023 21:51:25 GMT
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Post by dappy on Jun 11, 2023 21:58:13 GMT
Eh?
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 11, 2023 21:58:36 GMT
Policies are important of course Red. Labels as to exactly what is defined as right left or centre perhaps less so. Actually you could well argue that the Tories have moved significantly to the right on many matters - basically being taken over by UKIP. I relistened to Griffins Question Time appearance the other day. It was striking just how similar on so many issues his language was to the language currently being spoken by Tory Ministers and MPs. In those areas at least what was then shockingly far right has now (sadly in my view) become mainstream. But that wasn’t the point I wanted to explore with you. You evaded the question I asked. In an election in 15 months time, how many seats could a party lead by some combination of Farage and Johnson realistically win? Dappy, in what possible paradigm could anyone possibly argue that the Tories have moved significantly to the right on any matters, let alone many matters! This is absolute nonsense. Has the heat got to you Dappy? The Tories are currently a high tax high spending party. This is firmly Labour territory, please tell me how, in your opinion, the Tories have moved significantly to the right? |
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