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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 2, 2023 21:07:59 GMT
For once I agree with much of what johnofgwent states But its puzzling and the plot now thickens .... Bumbling Boris WILL now hand over all of his WhatsApp messages, something which Rishi and the Cabinet Office do not seem to want him to do. Never the less, Boris is going to bypass Rishi Sunak and comply. We are in an extrodinary situation where an ex court judge appointed to head the inquiry by the government is been snubbed and ignored, and it cannot do the government anything other than a lot of harm. In the end, the government will have to do what the courts tell them to do Seems straightforward to me. BoJo’s basking in the knowledge Sunak’s bullshit about openness and transparency is just that, bullshit |
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Post by Vinny on Jun 3, 2023 7:47:43 GMT
Nobody who governs or seeks to govern, can be trusted with the power they wish for.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2023 8:23:31 GMT
Whilst they are at it, perhaps they should require the similar contents of Nicola Sturgeon's, Mark Drakeford's, and Kier Starmer's messages for the enquiry. Not to mention all the staff of SAGE and Independent Sage who had a huge influence over government at a critical time. How much do you want this enquiry to cost? Besides, the enquiry into the handling of covid has a remit to investigate the Westminster government and not the devolved ones. There is an argument for enquiries into the latter but it would cost a lot more. And the leader of the opposition was not even in power and making any decisions. As for the scientific advisors, if the investigators decide that their phone records might be relevant then that can surely ask for them. Whataboutery such as this is the last gambit of someone otherwise without an argument |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 3, 2023 9:09:45 GMT
How much do you want this enquiry to cost? How about zilch? Because I don't want it at all. |
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Post by wapentake on Jun 3, 2023 9:15:29 GMT
Whilst they are at it, perhaps they should require the similar contents of Nicola Sturgeon's, Mark Drakeford's, and Kier Starmer's messages for the enquiry. Not to mention all the staff of SAGE and Independent Sage who had a huge influence over government at a critical time. How much do you want this enquiry to cost? Besides, the enquiry into the handling of covid has a remit to investigate the Westminster government and not the devolved ones. There is an argument for enquiries into the latter but it would cost a lot more. And the leader of the opposition was not even in power and making any decisions. As for the scientific advisors, if the investigators decide that their phone records might be relevant then that can surely ask for them. Whataboutery such as this is the last gambit of someone otherwise without an argument TBF Ned has had a long disaffection with the handling of the covid epidemic from almost the outset and the actions of all the political figures,the nhs and companies connected at the time. I often disagreed but it is nonsense to claim whataboutery when someone has had a longstanding stance on such an important subject. |
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Post by Vinny on Jun 3, 2023 9:17:21 GMT
Do we need a public enquiry to know that the government handled the Covid pandemic badly?
No.
And we all know they did handle it badly.
Would the opposition have handled anything better? Probably not.
And, they got a good drubbing last election for a reason.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 3, 2023 9:25:26 GMT
Do we need a public enquiry to know that the government handled the Covid pandemic badly? No. And we all know they did handle it badly. Would the opposition have handled anything better? Probably not. And, they got a good drubbing last election for a reason.
To be fair, I'm not sure that they did handle it badly: They were dealing with unknowns and hindsight is always 20/20, hence there will always be an element of "Damned if you do and damned if you don't". And, as I predicted at the time, most countries have come out of this in much the same place.
I agree that the opposition wouldn't have done better not least because they pretty much agreed with everything that the government was doing at the time.
And we all know what the outcome of this enquiry will be: It will rumble on for years, cost £millions and by the time its findings are published ("Lessons will be learned") everyone will have moved on and lost interest (as most of us have already).
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Post by johnofgwent on Jun 3, 2023 9:53:22 GMT
Whilst they are at it, perhaps they should require the similar contents of Nicola Sturgeon's, Mark Drakeford's, and Kier Starmer's messages for the enquiry. Not to mention all the staff of SAGE and Independent Sage who had a huge influence over government at a critical time. How much do you want this enquiry to cost? Besides, the enquiry into the handling of covid has a remit to investigate the Westminster government and not the devolved ones. There is an argument for enquiries into the latter but it would cost a lot more. And the leader of the opposition was not even in power and making any decisions. As for the scientific advisors, if the investigators decide that their phone records might be relevant then that can surely ask for them. Whataboutery such as this is the last gambit of someone otherwise without an argument Well, yes, Twatford has hone on the record to say he doesnt want his dirty laundry aired. Frankly given the fact the pox respected no geographic boundaries the first thing the COVID enquiry should do is censure the fact the four health services this shithole has thanks to Blair were allowed to do things four different ways for no goid reason. Twatford and Sturgeon should vever have been allowed to dictate how a worldwide pandemic was to be dealt with in a united kingdom.. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2023 10:01:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2023 10:09:00 GMT
Whilst they are at it, perhaps they should require the similar contents of Nicola Sturgeon's, Mark Drakeford's, and Kier Starmer's messages for the enquiry. Not to mention all the staff of SAGE and Independent Sage who had a huge influence over government at a critical time. How much do you want this enquiry to cost? Besides, the enquiry into the handling of covid has a remit to investigate the Westminster government and not the devolved ones. There is an argument for enquiries into the latter but it would cost a lot more. And the leader of the opposition was not even in power and making any decisions. As for the scientific advisors, if the investigators decide that their phone records might be relevant then that can surely ask for them. Whataboutery such as this is the last gambit of someone otherwise without an argument The furlough scheme, which I considered unnecessary, cost 70 billion, Steve. If we pay a billion for an enquiry which prevents such crashing of the economy in future, it will be well spent. You worked all through Covid, I worked part time during Covid (maskless) and we are still here. Starmer was also the leader of the opposition and pressed for stricter Covid rules in every dialogue. His WhatsApp messages might reveal why. It's hardly whataboutery. It's on topic and relevant. |
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Post by patman post on Jun 3, 2023 10:46:51 GMT
Whilst they are at it, perhaps they should require the similar contents of Nicola Sturgeon's, Mark Drakeford's, and Kier Starmer's messages for the enquiry. Not to mention all the staff of SAGE and Independent Sage who had a huge influence over government at a critical time. Do we know that the inquiry hasn’t or won’t…? |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 3, 2023 10:51:16 GMT
Do we need a public enquiry to know that the government handled the Covid pandemic badly? No. My thinking is that the purpose of the enquiry is not so much about apportioning blame for errors made, but more of a "lessons learned" so that we can deal with future pandemics better. In that respect the enquiry could be valuable. |
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Post by patman post on Jun 3, 2023 10:53:30 GMT
Apparently Johnson has bypassed the Cabinet Office and sent all his whatsapp messages to the enquiry direct. Johnson is setting himself up as the innocent here — he’ll be able to claim that he wouldn’t have handed everything over (if he does/has) if he had knowingly participated in anything dishonest or wrong… |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 3, 2023 10:58:47 GMT
Do we need a public enquiry to know that the government handled the Covid pandemic badly? No. My thinking is that the purpose of the enquiry is not so much about apportioning blame for errors made, but more of a "lessons learned" so that we can deal with future pandemics better. In that respect the enquiry could be valuable. Nah, it'll be a waste of time.
Just like they all are.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2023 11:02:02 GMT
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