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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 12, 2023 10:42:45 GMT
It's the kind of thinking that led British Railways to continue building steam locomotives until the early sixties while our continental neighbours got on with electrification. The long-suffering British public still live with the consequences of that small-minded short-termism as it surely will with the 'business as usual' approach to energy production promoted by Bentley and like-minded figures in government.
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Post by Orac on Jun 12, 2023 10:44:12 GMT
Your proposal lacks the chaos and inconvenience usually attendant carbon reducing measures...sorry - i was being facetious
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 10:46:36 GMT
Your proposal lacks the chaos and inconvenience usually attendant carbon reducing measures...sorry - i was being facetious Oh sorry. I missed that 😁 |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 10:49:18 GMT
It's the kind of thinking that led British Railways to continue building steam locomotives until the early sixties while our continental neighbours got on with electrification. The long-suffering British public still live with the consequences of that small-minded short-termism as it surely will with the 'business as usual' approach to energy production promoted by Bentley and like-minded figures in government. It’s not short termism , it’s rational thinking as oppose to the illogical evangelical zealotry that you and like minded figures promote ..see I can do that too. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 12, 2023 10:57:05 GMT
Inconvenience is often a feature of large-scale long-term transformative initiatives but its effects can be mitigated though good design, planning and execution. Chaos should never be experienced under any circumstances and would certainly not have to be part of a transition from individual to district heating schemes. Here is a small scale example from Cornwall: "Simmons' home was fitted with a heat pump that shares a heatmain with several neighbours. It took around a week to do the interior and exterior work and "really wasn't too disruptive or noisy", she says. The water cylinder, tucked away inside an old linen cupboard, is almost exactly the same size as an average boiler." www.homebuilding.co.uk/news/ground-breaking-heat-the-streets-scheme-could-make-ground-source-heat-pumps-more-accessible |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 12, 2023 11:04:03 GMT
It's the kind of thinking that led British Railways to continue building steam locomotives until the early sixties while our continental neighbours got on with electrification. The long-suffering British public still live with the consequences of that small-minded short-termism as it surely will with the 'business as usual' approach to energy production promoted by Bentley and like-minded figures in government. It’s not short termism , it’s rational thinking as oppose to the illogical evangelical zealotry that you and like minded figures promote ..see I can do that too. At the moment, domestic heating accounts for about a third of the UK's greenhouse emissions, around the same as its 35 million petrol- and diesel-fuelled vehicles. The problem is obvious but the proposed solutions are, to put it mildly, a little airy-fairy.
The current approach is to place all the chips on hydrogen as a solution. Seems slightly experimental to me when there are other, tried and tested solutions already in operation in other European countries that wouldn't take twenty years or more to implement.
Beginning to smell very like a case of the NIH syndrome to me.
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 11:05:01 GMT
Inconvenience is often a feature of large-scale long-term transformative initiatives but its effects can be mitigated though good design, planning and execution. Chaos should never be experienced under any circumstances and would certainly not have to be part of a transition from individual to district heating schemes. Here is a small scale example from Cornwall: "Simmons' home was fitted with a heat pump that shares a heatmain with several neighbours. It took around a week to do the interior and exterior work and "really wasn't too disruptive or noisy", she says. The water cylinder, tucked away inside an old linen cupboard, is almost exactly the same size as an average boiler." www.homebuilding.co.uk/news/ground-breaking-heat-the-streets-scheme-could-make-ground-source-heat-pumps-more-accessibleI think you might be constructing your own argument in order to refute it. No one has claimed that we shouldn’t use heat pumps if they are viable to use and fit . |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 11:08:06 GMT
It’s not short termism , it’s rational thinking as oppose to the illogical evangelical zealotry that you and like minded figures promote ..see I can do that too. At the moment, domestic heating accounts for about a third of the UK's greenhouse emissions, around the same as its 35 million petrol- and diesel-fuelled vehicles. The problem is obvious but the proposed solutions are, to put it mildly, a little airy-fairy.
The current approach is to place all the chips on hydrogen as a solution. Seems slightly experimental to me when there are other, tried and tested solutions already in operation in other European countries that wouldn't take twenty years or more to implement.
Beginning to smell very like a case of the NIH syndrome to me.
We are not placing all our chips on hydrogen. Beginning to smell of straw man fallacy to me . |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 12, 2023 11:08:20 GMT
The problem with a 'let them eat cake' approach is that the little people will tend to have little ideas and usually fail to appreciate the bigger picture. That's where the role of leadership comes in.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 12, 2023 11:10:41 GMT
"We are not placing all our chips on hydrogen."
As far as domestic heating is concerned I'm not seeing any other alternative to replacing natural gas with hydrogen on the drawing board. At least, I don't believe you have mentioned any.
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 11:12:08 GMT
The problem with a 'let them eat cake' approach is that the little people will tend to have little ideas and usually fail to appreciate the bigger picture. That's where the role of leadership comes in. Little people like yourself ? Or all all people who do not agree with you ‘ little people ‘? Beginning to smell like evangelical zealotry to me . |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 11:13:08 GMT
"We are not placing all our chips on hydrogen." As far as domestic heating is concerned I'm not seeing any other alternative to replacing natural gas with hydrogen on the drawing board. At least, I don't believe you have mentioned any. You haven’t noticed that various kinds heat pumps are available or did you forget ? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 12, 2023 11:25:27 GMT
But you've attached the caveat 'where viable' while at the same time stating that most of the present housing stock would not be viable for heat pump installation without very expensive upgrades.
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Post by Bentley on Jun 12, 2023 12:12:50 GMT
But you've attached the caveat 'where viable' while at the same time stating that most of the present housing stock would not be viable for heat pump installation without very expensive upgrades. What’s wrong with that? |
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Post by colbops on Jun 12, 2023 12:17:06 GMT
More's the pity. The obvious way forward is for the government to mandate district heating schemes for all new developments using centralised industrial-scale heatpumps. While at the same encouraging and empowering local authorities to replace housing stock unfit for 21st century use with something more appropriate, that can also be served by district-level schemes. I understand that will be an effort on a par with the post-war slum clearances but it is something that has to be done sooner or later. Business as usual simply isn't an option no matter what the Luddites say. The idea that every tiny dwelling is an inviolable castle in which the owner can do anything he likes regardless of the greater effect is simply no longer sustainable. That is already happening Dan. Any new developments within a designated heat network zone will be required to make provision for connection to a district heat network. the zoning plans are at a pretty advanced stage. |
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