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Post by Red Rackham on May 26, 2023 5:19:14 GMT
I go along with the general thrust of your argument Red, but thought it worth mentioning that the 'Albanian Mafia who run serious crime in this country' are not actually from the EU. Quite possibly, however I'm fairly confident the EU facilitated their 'free movement' across a borderless Europe. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 26, 2023 5:24:35 GMT
LOL, ZG you are the classic lefty. You're a lefty who doesn't really think he's a lefty. I'm not suggesting any keys should be thrown away, but there should be a deterrent, sadly there isn't. Since multiculturalism was forced upon us crime is getting worse and the penalties seem to be getting more lenient. I mean, how many times does a black youth have to be caught with a knife before he goes to jail? This country is going to ratshit because the diversity bar is constantly lowered. Feltham YOI is full of black thugs, but outraged lefties never ask what crimes they committed, they just blame the 'racist' system. A judge in Nottingham said he often sentences black youths to more lenient sentences than they expected because they more often come from broken homes and become involved in gangs. What is it with black youths and gang culture? Are you thrilled that the Albanian Mafia run serious crime in this country? They are here because they know we're soft. They know if they're caught they will be treated with kid gloves and of course the tax payer will pay for a lefty lawyer to defend them. But if an Englishman needs legal aid and is earning more than £12,000 a year, he doesn't qualify. He earns too much. The legal aid bill for illegal criminals was £828 million last year. I think it's time we took the kid gloves off. I think people in this country have had enough of EU criminals and lefty lawyers taking the piss, and I think we need a proper centre right Conservative government. You wish I was a leftie Red, but I am talking facts. Throughout the 18th century the punishment for crimes became more and more severe, but crime just grew. The saying 'Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb' was literal. If the punishment for a minor crime was excessive, then the punishment for a major crime must be worse. You quickly reach the death penalty for fairly moderate crime. I would ask you to read up a bit, but I know you wont. I know you prefer to just think of anyone who thinks your wrong as a leftie. ZG, as I mentioned elswhere... In the early 1960's murderers were often executed, and train robbers got 30 years for stealing cash. These days the average sentence for murder is 15 years. Which is half the sentence for stealing cash in the 1960's. And lefties say we havent gone soft on crime. |
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Post by zanygame on May 26, 2023 6:30:39 GMT
You wish I was a leftie Red, but I am talking facts. Throughout the 18th century the punishment for crimes became more and more severe, but crime just grew. The saying 'Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb' was literal. If the punishment for a minor crime was excessive, then the punishment for a major crime must be worse. You quickly reach the death penalty for fairly moderate crime. I would ask you to read up a bit, but I know you wont. I know you prefer to just think of anyone who thinks your wrong as a leftie. ZG, as I mentioned elswhere... In the early 1960's murderers were often executed, and train robbers got 30 years for stealing cash. These days the average sentence for murder is 15 years. Which is half the sentence for stealing cash in the 1960's. And lefties say we havent gone soft on crime. And in the 1960's did that reduce crime? Oh, and the great train robbers killed a man. |
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Post by Dan Dare on May 26, 2023 11:08:56 GMT
I go along with the general thrust of your argument Red, but thought it worth mentioning that the 'Albanian Mafia who run serious crime in this country' are not actually from the EU. Quite possibly, however I'm fairly confident the EU facilitated their 'free movement' across a borderless Europe. I don't think the people of the EU would be willing to forgo the benefits they derive from freedom of movement just because a few thousand Albanians are making a nuisance of themselves in England. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 26, 2023 11:32:17 GMT
Quite possibly, however I'm fairly confident the EU facilitated their 'free movement' across a borderless Europe. I don't think the people of the EU would be willing to forgo the benefits they derive from freedom of movement just because a few thousand Albanians are making a nuisance of themselves in England. Dan, I have friends & family in the EU states of Germany and France and they most certainly do not regard free movement and open borders as a benefit, quite the opposite, and that view is shared by many people. Not that you will ever hear the EU talking about it of course. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 26, 2023 11:35:57 GMT
ZG, as I mentioned elswhere... In the early 1960's murderers were often executed, and train robbers got 30 years for stealing cash. These days the average sentence for murder is 15 years. Which is half the sentence for stealing cash in the 1960's. And lefties say we havent gone soft on crime. And in the 1960's did that reduce crime? Oh, and the great train robbers killed a man. ZG, that is the response I expect from an outraged lefty, you're not an outraged lefty, are you? Are you suggesting that if prison does not reduce crime we should not have prisons? Prison is not designed to reduce crime. Prison is a punishment for those who commit crime. |
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Post by bancroft on May 26, 2023 12:35:41 GMT
I go along with the general thrust of your argument Red, but thought it worth mentioning that the 'Albanian Mafia who run serious crime in this country' are not actually from the EU. Correct yet they are in the process of trying to join the EU and of course pass through several safe countries before arriving in England via the Channel. |
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Post by Dan Dare on May 26, 2023 13:06:01 GMT
I don't think the people of the EU would be willing to forgo the benefits they derive from freedom of movement just because a few thousand Albanians are making a nuisance of themselves in England. Dan, I have friends & family in the EU states of Germany and France and they most certainly do not regard free movement and open borders as a benefit, quite the opposite, and that view is shared by many people. Not that you will ever hear the EU talking about it of course. Have you considered the possibility that your friends and family may be telling you what they think you want to hear? |
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Post by patman post on May 26, 2023 13:32:03 GMT
You wish I was a leftie Red, but I am talking facts. Throughout the 18th century the punishment for crimes became more and more severe, but crime just grew. The saying 'Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb' was literal. If the punishment for a minor crime was excessive, then the punishment for a major crime must be worse. You quickly reach the death penalty for fairly moderate crime. I would ask you to read up a bit, but I know you wont. I know you prefer to just think of anyone who thinks your wrong as a leftie. ZG, as I mentioned elswhere... In the early 1960's murderers were often executed, and train robbers got 30 years for stealing cash. These days the average sentence for murder is 15 years. Which is half the sentence for stealing cash in the 1960's. And lefties say we havent gone soft on crime. In the '60s, the establishment's property was regarded more highly than innocent lives. The robbers would likely have been hanged for stealing the amount they did if the government could have rushed through the legislation.
As it was, the driver of the train was seriously hurt, never worked again, and died in 1970.
The sentences for robbery were, even then, considered to be excessive and were longer than those given to many murderers or armed robbers. It was meant to send shockwaves throughout the criminal community.
However, it's been suggested that the severity of the sentencing prompted more criminals to take guns with them when they set out on robberies....
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Post by zanygame on May 26, 2023 13:46:22 GMT
I don't think the people of the EU would be willing to forgo the benefits they derive from freedom of movement just because a few thousand Albanians are making a nuisance of themselves in England. Dan, I have friends & family in the EU states of Germany and France and they most certainly do not regard free movement and open borders as a benefit, quite the opposite, and that view is shared by many people. Not that you will ever hear the EU talking about it of course. Freedom of movement is not the same as open borders. The EU does not have open borders. |
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Post by zanygame on May 26, 2023 13:53:21 GMT
And in the 1960's did that reduce crime? Oh, and the great train robbers killed a man. ZG, that is the response I expect from an outraged lefty, you're not an outraged lefty, are you? Are you suggesting that if prison does not reduce crime we should not have prisons? Prison is not designed to reduce crime. Prison is a punishment for those who commit crime. Of course prison is designed to reduce crime. Punishment is always about discouraging bad behaviour. But the thing causing the climb in crime is the massive bloom in illegal drugs. In part this is because so many young people see no future beyond low paid short hours jobs. This is multiplied in poorer areas. Why? because business does not want to open in deprived areas, so jobs don't go there. Am I an outraged leftie, I don't think so, but if it makes you happy to box me up. Sa la vie. |
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Post by zanygame on May 26, 2023 13:54:52 GMT
ZG, as I mentioned elswhere... In the early 1960's murderers were often executed, and train robbers got 30 years for stealing cash. These days the average sentence for murder is 15 years. Which is half the sentence for stealing cash in the 1960's. And lefties say we havent gone soft on crime. In the '60s, the establishment's property was regarded more highly than innocent lives. The robbers would likely have been hanged for stealing the amount they did if the government could have rushed through the legislation.
As it was, the driver of the train was seriously hurt, never worked again, and died in 1970.
The sentences for robbery were, even then, considered to be excessive and were longer than those given to many murderers or armed robbers. It was meant to send shockwaves throughout the criminal community.
However, it's been suggested that the severity of the sentencing prompted more criminals to take guns with them when they set out on robberies....
Agreed. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 26, 2023 15:55:12 GMT
ZG, that is the response I expect from an outraged lefty, you're not an outraged lefty, are you? Are you suggesting that if prison does not reduce crime we should not have prisons? Prison is not designed to reduce crime. Prison is a punishment for those who commit crime. Of course prison is designed to reduce crime. Punishment is always about discouraging bad behaviour. But the thing causing the climb in crime is the massive bloom in illegal drugs. In part this is because so many young people see no future beyond low paid short hours jobs. This is multiplied in poorer areas. Why? because business does not want to open in deprived areas, so jobs don't go there. Am I an outraged leftie, I don't think so, but if it makes you happy to box me up. Sa la vie. ZG first and foremost prison is designed to be a punishment. If it acts as a deterrent as well fine, all the better. But the purpose of prison is to remove people from society who have committed crimes. Prison is quite obviously not designed to deter criminals from committing crime, if that were the case then prisons would be empty. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 26, 2023 16:07:46 GMT
Dan, I have friends & family in the EU states of Germany and France and they most certainly do not regard free movement and open borders as a benefit, quite the opposite, and that view is shared by many people. Not that you will ever hear the EU talking about it of course. Freedom of movement is not the same as open borders. The EU does not have open borders. ZG, anyone could land on an Italian or Greek beach from who knows where then travel through seven or eight safe and borderless EU states to reach Calais. He then gets a lift in a cross channel dingy as the French police and coast guard look on. Once on an English beach 40 year old Mustafa claims to be a 16 year old refugee. Yes we are bloody fools for not treating him as a criminal, but lets not forget the only reason he so easilly got to that English beach is because the EU facilitate free movement across a borderless EU. |
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Post by zanygame on May 26, 2023 17:03:30 GMT
Of course prison is designed to reduce crime. Punishment is always about discouraging bad behaviour. But the thing causing the climb in crime is the massive bloom in illegal drugs. In part this is because so many young people see no future beyond low paid short hours jobs. This is multiplied in poorer areas. Why? because business does not want to open in deprived areas, so jobs don't go there. Am I an outraged leftie, I don't think so, but if it makes you happy to box me up. Sa la vie. ZG first and foremost prison is designed to be a punishment. If it acts as a deterrent as well fine, all the better. But the purpose of prison is to remove people from society who have committed crimes. Prison is quite obviously not designed to deter criminals from committing crime, if that were the case then prisons would be empty. Most people do not want to go to prison and it acts as a deterrent because of that. Talk to anyone who's been in prison and they will tell you its hideous. Not the regime, but the constant fear and the missing out on all the things your family are doing. So why risk getting caught and going to prison? You think its because you are black? And immigrant? I think its because you wanted some money aged 14, your mum and dad didn't have any and the guy in the Range Rover with the bling said he'd pay you a tenner to deliver some drugs for him. Simple, easy money. Then you got mugged (by his mates) and he said you owed him two grand for the drugs and he would rape your mum in front of you if you didn't work to repay him. Go to the police? but you've been bought up knowing the Met are racist bastards who would sell you out are are probably on the take themselves. So what do you do? I say, but for the grace of god, there go I. You say they are Black immigrants and therefore evil. Guess I am a leftie snowflake. |
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