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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2023 14:10:47 GMT
'Questioning' is not investigating, show a specific incident that you feel needs investigating and we will all listen. You cannot, of course, use Sue Gray as that 'is' being investigated. Are you hard of thinking,people questioning the actions of civil servants is the prelude to wanting it investigated,you aimlessly shuffle words and think you debate,you cannot answer a simple question. Its a long way from conjecture to having sufficient evidence to hold an investigation. I have answered the question. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2023 14:14:39 GMT
Braverman 'did not know', that's is the funniest thing I have heard today. Of course she knew that's why she asked a political aide to help here sort it out. Don't forget she was head of the legal profession at the time. Your are guessing that she knew odds on you have guessed wrongly , she is a Barrister who has probably never ever dealt with such a lowly offence as a speeding ticket , she does have staff who help her do her work like all MP's and Ministers for the simple reason Ministers are extremely busy day in day out she has more important issues to deal with, as already been pointed out she has not done anything wrong she is being attacked simply because she is a Tory its as simple as that Usual Mud Slinging If she did not know why did she ask a civil servant if they could help arrange it, was she guessing she could? "she does have staff who help her do her work like all MP's and Ministers", they are for 'official' business not to sort out personal problems. We don' know if she has done anything wrong that is the reason for an enquiry.😔 |
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Post by Handyman on May 23, 2023 14:43:35 GMT
Your are guessing that she knew odds on you have guessed wrongly , she is a Barrister who has probably never ever dealt with such a lowly offence as a speeding ticket , she does have staff who help her do her work like all MP's and Ministers for the simple reason Ministers are extremely busy day in day out she has more important issues to deal with, as already been pointed out she has not done anything wrong she is being attacked simply because she is a Tory its as simple as that Usual Mud Slinging Not sure you’re correct. As I read it the allegation is that she tried to use civil service staff to arrange something in her personal life that was nothing to do with her government duties. This, it seems, broke the ministerial code and she should have done this herself or approached someone outside like a lawyer to make enquiries and any arrangements. It’s this allegation that needs to be dealt with, nothing else, because the penalty for speeding seems to be over and done with… As she is a Barrister I would have expected her to contact the sender of the Speeding Ticket herself for guidance, but she didn't as I stated earlier busy dealing with far more serious issues, what is certain is that she did not break any law , whoever she may have breached the Ministerial code, she may not have we will have to wait and see |
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Post by Handyman on May 23, 2023 14:48:40 GMT
Your are guessing that she knew odds on you have guessed wrongly , she is a Barrister who has probably never ever dealt with such a lowly offence as a speeding ticket , she does have staff who help her do her work like all MP's and Ministers for the simple reason Ministers are extremely busy day in day out she has more important issues to deal with, as already been pointed out she has not done anything wrong she is being attacked simply because she is a Tory its as simple as that Usual Mud Slinging If she did not know why did she ask a civil servant if they could help arrange it, was she guessing she could? "she does have staff who help her do her work like all MP's and Ministers", they are for 'official' business not to sort out personal problems. We don' know if she has done anything wrong that is the reason for an enquiry.😔 Why ask me I don't know why she asked a Civil Servant to find out something she did not know, you would have to ask Braverman to find that out , if she has breached the Ministerial Code or not has yet to be established , if cleared of course the Mud Slingers will cry cover up as usual |
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Post by patman post on May 23, 2023 15:09:13 GMT
Not sure you’re correct. As I read it the allegation is that she tried to use civil service staff to arrange something in her personal life that was nothing to do with her government duties. This, it seems, broke the ministerial code and she should have done this herself or approached someone outside like a lawyer to make enquiries and any arrangements. It’s this allegation that needs to be dealt with, nothing else, because the penalty for speeding seems to be over and done with… As she is a Barrister I would have expected her to contact the sender of the Speeding Ticket herself for guidance, but she didn't as I stated earlier busy dealing with far more serious issues, what is certain is that she did not break any law , whoever she may have breached the Ministerial code, she may not have we will have to wait and see Not concentrating or being aware of correct procedures because she was "busy dealing with far more serious issues" is rather like inadvertently exceeding the speed limit. Easily done, but if done, still liable to a penalty.
The severity of a speeding penalty can depend on the number of times it's happened. Rather like breaching the ministerial code, I would imagine...
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Post by Handyman on May 23, 2023 15:50:28 GMT
As she is a Barrister I would have expected her to contact the sender of the Speeding Ticket herself for guidance, but she didn't as I stated earlier busy dealing with far more serious issues, what is certain is that she did not break any law , whoever she may have breached the Ministerial code, she may not have we will have to wait and see Not concentrating or being aware of correct procedures because she was "busy dealing with far more serious issues" is rather like inadvertently exceeding the speed limit. Easily done, but if done, still liable to a penalty.
The severity of a speeding penalty can depend on the number of times it's happened. Rather like breaching the ministerial code, I would imagine...
I think you will find that over excessive speed way over the speed limit will mean straight to Court and disqualified, as will totting up of penalty points in three years |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2023 16:11:48 GMT
If she did not know why did she ask a civil servant if they could help arrange it, was she guessing she could? "she does have staff who help her do her work like all MP's and Ministers", they are for 'official' business not to sort out personal problems. We don' know if she has done anything wrong that is the reason for an enquiry.😔 Why ask me I don't know why she asked a Civil Servant to find out something she did not know, you would have to ask Braverman to find that out , if she has breached the Ministerial Code or not has yet to be established , if cleared of course the Mud Slingers will cry cover up as usual How can you ask anyone about something, you say, she did not know about, your reasoning is stupid. |
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Post by patman post on May 23, 2023 17:05:00 GMT
Not concentrating or being aware of correct procedures because she was "busy dealing with far more serious issues" is rather like inadvertently exceeding the speed limit. Easily done, but if done, still liable to a penalty.
The severity of a speeding penalty can depend on the number of times it's happened. Rather like breaching the ministerial code, I would imagine...
I think you will find that over excessive speed way over the speed limit will mean straight to Court and disqualified, as will totting up of penalty points in three years In the interest of pedantry, I did post: The severity of a speeding penalty can depend on the number of times it's happened. I didn't post does only.
Similarly, where a breach of the expected standards laid out in the Ministerial Code, there is no set sanction.
1.6 Ministers are personally responsible for deciding how to act and conduct themselves in the light of the Code and for justifying their actions and conduct to Parliament and the public. However, Ministers only remain in office for so long as they retain the confidence of the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is the ultimate judge of the standards of behaviour expected of a Minister and the appropriate consequences of a breach of those standards.
1.7 Where the Prime Minister determines that a breach of the expected standards has occurred, he may ask the Independent Adviser for confidential advice on the appropriate sanction. The final decision rests with the Prime Minister. Where the Prime Minister retains his confidence in the Minister, available sanctions include requiring some form of public apology, remedial action, or removal of ministerial salary for a period.
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Post by Handyman on May 23, 2023 17:51:26 GMT
Why ask me I don't know why she asked a Civil Servant to find out something she did not know, you would have to ask Braverman to find that out , if she has breached the Ministerial Code or not has yet to be established , if cleared of course the Mud Slingers will cry cover up as usual How can you ask anyone about something, you say, she did not know about, your reasoning is stupid. You are per usual are going around in ever decreasing circles , you will eventually disappear up your own arse, when it happens peace at last |
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Post by Handyman on May 23, 2023 17:53:40 GMT
I think you will find that over excessive speed way over the speed limit will mean straight to Court and disqualified, as will totting up of penalty points in three years In the interest of pedantry, I did post: The severity of a speeding penalty can depend on the number of times it's happened. I didn't post does only.
Similarly, where a breach of the expected standards laid out in the Ministerial Code, there is no set sanction.
1.6 Ministers are personally responsible for deciding how to act and conduct themselves in the light of the Code and for justifying their actions and conduct to Parliament and the public. However, Ministers only remain in office for so long as they retain the confidence of the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is the ultimate judge of the standards of behaviour expected of a Minister and the appropriate consequences of a breach of those standards.
1.7 Where the Prime Minister determines that a breach of the expected standards has occurred, he may ask the Independent Adviser for confidential advice on the appropriate sanction. The final decision rests with the Prime Minister. Where the Prime Minister retains his confidence in the Minister, available sanctions include requiring some form of public apology, remedial action, or removal of ministerial salary for a period.
I don't read every post in here nor do I remember each one that I do read word for word |
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Post by bancroft on May 23, 2023 18:36:27 GMT
I think this is a non story yet Labour are bound to play on it as they are struggling to present a positive image for voting for them.
Braverman obviously did not want the points though trying to do a course as a Minister would not work as she would be a distraction on the course as a public figure.
This is not a stepping down offence and it will be interesting to see how this runs.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2023 5:59:09 GMT
In the interest of pedantry, I did post: The severity of a speeding penalty can depend on the number of times it's happened. I didn't post does only.
Similarly, where a breach of the expected standards laid out in the Ministerial Code, there is no set sanction.
1.6 Ministers are personally responsible for deciding how to act and conduct themselves in the light of the Code and for justifying their actions and conduct to Parliament and the public. However, Ministers only remain in office for so long as they retain the confidence of the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister is the ultimate judge of the standards of behaviour expected of a Minister and the appropriate consequences of a breach of those standards.
1.7 Where the Prime Minister determines that a breach of the expected standards has occurred, he may ask the Independent Adviser for confidential advice on the appropriate sanction. The final decision rests with the Prime Minister. Where the Prime Minister retains his confidence in the Minister, available sanctions include requiring some form of public apology, remedial action, or removal of ministerial salary for a period.
I don't read every post in here nor do I remember each one that I do read word for word I will probably see you in there.😂 |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2023 6:01:56 GMT
I think this is a non story yet Labour are bound to play on it as they are struggling to present a positive image for voting for them. Braverman obviously did not want the points though trying to do a course as a Minister would not work as she would be a distraction on the course as a public figure. This is not a stepping down offence and it will be interesting to see how this runs. The speeding, fine, points and speed awareness course are not the issue although the right-wing media want you to think it is. It is the use of civil servants to help sort a personal problem that is the issue, that is specifically against the code of conduct. Braverman has form. |
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Post by Hutchyns on May 24, 2023 6:46:51 GMT
I'm afraid you'll have to shoulder a large portion of the blame for sending people down the wrong path on this one, Red Rum.
Remember it was the Leftists who were first out of the traps, ranting and raving and attempting to stir a hullabaloo. If you set an inaccurate agenda initially you only have yourselves to blame (and possibly the Mods for not shifting this thread in it's initial stages to their newly titled Conspiracy Theory section)
Just take a look at Page 1 to remind yourself. Wapentake crowing about the 'shame' of Braverman, and how it was Braverman's evasion of publicity that we should be focusing on. You made a very early (third post) on this thread:
'Is it right for a 'citizen' of this country to attempt, using a position of power, to avoid paying a speeding fine?' ... in the process doing more than anyone to throw people off the scent, by encouraging us to concentrate our minds on the avoidance of paying a fine aspect.
It would appear the right-wing media have done no more than followed your lead ..... if you're now desperately trying to sing from a different song-sheet as regards Braverman, look a little closer to home to find who sowed the seeds of confusion in their haste to throw some mud at her. Joining in with those early baseless Leftist conspiracies are making attempts to change your tune now, all the more difficult.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2023 8:10:32 GMT
I'm afraid you'll have to shoulder a large portion of the blame for sending people down the wrong path on this one, Red Rum. Remember it was the Leftists who were first out of the traps, ranting and raving and attempting to stir a hullabaloo. If you set an inaccurate agenda initially you only have yourselves to blame (and possibly the Mods for not shifting this thread in it's initial stages to their newly titled Conspiracy Theory section) Just take a look at Page 1 to remind yourself. Wapentake crowing about the 'shame' of Braverman, and how it was Braverman's evasion of publicity that we should be focusing on. You made a very early (third post) on this thread: 'Is it right for a 'citizen' of this country to attempt, using a position of power, to avoid paying a speeding fine?' ... in the process doing more than anyone to throw people off the scent, by encouraging us to concentrate our minds on the avoidance of paying a fine aspect. It would appear the right-wing media have done no more than followed your lead ..... if you're now desperately trying to sing from a different song-sheet as regards Braverman, look a little closer to home to find who sowed the seeds of confusion in their haste to throw some mud at her. Joining in with those early baseless Leftist conspiracies are making attempts to change your tune now, all the more difficult. "Is it right for a 'citizen' of this country to attempt, using a position of power, to avoid paying a speeding fine", that is exactly what Braverman did. She wanted the civil service to 'find a way', even though according to some on here she did not know about it, to have a one-2-one speed awareness course so she could avoid paying the fine and having a points deduction, she had also asked if she could put it on her Ministerial expenses. No citizen of this country has the right to ask a civil service employee to 'help' with their private matters, this includes Ministers of the crown. None of that comes under the heading of a conspiracy. link |
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