You've been warned.

I'm sure my opinion about you isn't unique.

You cite two young people you happen to know who have no interest in politics as if that is universal. By the time I was 17 I was deeply interested in politics and in my time campaigning locally in recent years - both inside and outside the Labour party - I have encountered plenty of young people who are passionate about politics. Like other age groups, some are interested in politics, some not. And if you think I have reached the age of 57 without gaining a lot of experience of life along the way, you must think I have lived my life in a monastery, lol. Nevertheless, at 17 I still knew enough and could think sensibly enough to vote had I had the vote. And generally it is the ones interested and knowledgeable about politics who are more likely to vote. The uninterested ones are much less likely to bother. Which goes for all age groups..

As for my own life experience, this includes a childhood in which domestic violence was a regular thing, schools that still empowered cane-wielding sadists, teenage youth training programs, working for a living in a variety of jobs, including in a garage, for the local council, as a landscape gardener, as a construction worker, and most recently in retail. I had periods of unemployment in the 80s and 90s, was on long term sick for a few years with depression and anxiety which I overcame so have experienced poor mental health in the past. And having found my dad dead in bed when I was 18 in what was a very hot summer, my early adulthood was scarred and, though it took years to realise, this damaged me. No one should see their dad like that when a few hours earlier he was alive and well aged only 39. I reacted badly and went off the rails for four or five years, dabbling heavily in drink and drugs. I sought help in the end and took action to sort myself out. These days I use such early experiences to talk to people I see making similar mistakes with words of wisdom and also help those who are struggling with past traumas.

What I have missed out on is never having had kids because I never felt the desire, but most of those around me did and I was a frequent babysitter in earlier years. For a time I was a volunteer for the Red Cross and have twice been a member of the Labour party, the first time in the 80s when I was still young. I joined the party when still aged only 17. My first serious girlfriend was German and I taught myself to speak the language, which is why I ended up travelling alone to Germany aged 17 to spend time with her and her family. I have also travelled to Egypt and seen the pyramids, Athens and the acropolis, Izmir in Turkey, Venice, and also Cyprus. 

I grew up in an owner occupied house, latterly in affluent suburbia, but my mum had to sell up when my dad died. I spent a decade or so living in insecure private rented accommodation including brief periods of crashing on friends' sofas so officially homeless. One night I had to sleep rough. But have spent most of the last quarter century living in a one bedroom social housing flat. My experience as a tenant - both private and social - has a big impact upon my views re housing.

I could go on. Suffice it to say there are many things I have experienced and many things I have not. Same could be said of most people with a few decades behind them.

But what the average 17 year old has is an almost natural ease when it comes to navigating the internet, having grown up with it and not had to learn it later in life. They are also coming of age in a society where their every error of judgement will be plastered all over the internet and remain there for all time. We never had to worry about that in our day. We never had to experience the consequences of that. Young people also have very recent experience of the education system as it is today which is rather more relevant than our experience of it many decades ago because so much has changed since then. Clearly, the average 17 year olds experience of the education system is far more relevant than ours.

Because things change so much with the passage of time, there will always be areas where  the experience of young people is more relevant than ours, because ours is outdated. We should listen to them and give them a say. Besides which, so what about experience. This forum itself produces clear evidence that experience does not always equate to intelligent thinking and sensible decision making. What matters to me is the cognitive ability to think things through rationally, and any intelligent 16 or 17 year old is capable of doing that. We all were when I and my peers were that age and I see zero reason to assume today's teenagers are any less intelligent.

I didn't suggest that 'all' young people are uninterested in politics, however I have to say that in my experience young people are in the main, uninterested in politics. The young lady I mentioned previously claims to be pro EU, but you only have to chat with her for a couple of minutes to realise she doesn't know the first thing about the EU. The reason she claims to be pro EU is because she is influenced by her parents who I know well and are very pro EU. I'm sure no one will be surprised to hear that a young inexperienced person can be easily influenced, which is why in my opinion schoolchildren should not be given a vote.

Fortunately for me I know nothing of domestic violence, although I did on occasion receive corporal punishment at school and I will be the first to say I deserved it. Teachers or at least headmasters should have the ability to administer corporal punishment to disruptive little gits who refuse to behave, in my experience, it works. When I was at school, senior school, no one ever got expelled or excluded as it's called today. If you committed an offence that was considered to be that serious you were caned and sent back to class. These days  c3000 kids are permanently excluded from school every year. Progress? I think not. 

I wont go into my own childhood in any detail, not that there's anything to hide. Other than dad dying when we were young it was fairly unremarkable. Some people thought having no dad made us an easy target, they got that wrong. From an early age mum taught my brother and I to fight back and we did. We soon learned that bullies weren't interested in people who faught back. I also saw a bit of the world, I joined the army aged 17, that was the best decision of my life. At that time I never thought I'd stay in for 22 years and oddly enough I joined the Labour party during the early 80's. That raised a few eyebrows I can tell you lol. The army isn't (Or wasn't) the sort of environment that was particularly sympathetic towards the Labour party. Just goes to show how politically clueless I was, and I was. 

Some years ago, about 20 years ago actually, my wife and I did a CLAIT course at night school. (Computer Literacy and Information Technology) Every Tuesday & Thursday evening for six months. It was very informative, too informative. It taught us all sorts we didn't really need to know, suffice to say within a few months I'd forgotten most of it. Like language (I also used to speak passable German) use it or lose it. I'm no IT genius because I don't need to be, I know what I need to know. 

You claim there will always be areas where the experience of young people is more relevant than ours. That may be your experience, it's certainly not mine. I cant think of any circumstance in which a young persons experience is considered to be more relevant than the experience of someone older, someone with more experience. Kids should of course be listened to, they should be nurtured and encouraged cajoled even, but not mollycoddled or wrapped in cotton wool. They should be taught to be respectful polite and confident, and not to be frightened of failure. Failing is OK, giving up is not. In my opinion. 

Thanks  for your detailed and reasoned response. I feel that for once we are engaging with each other's thoughts and experiences rather than each other's politically motivate soundbites. But I have to be back in work in less than 11 hours during which I must find time to sleep, so lack the time for the response your post deserves. So a better response will have to wait until after work tomorrow.

You just said you wanted to vote for Michael Foot - does not compute.  

The problem is France, our border control should be able to stop these migrants in the channel as they approach UK waters and hand them back to the French, it's a farce that the illegal migrants are dictating the terms by refusing to be rescued by French border patrols, they shouldn't have a say in the matter.