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Post by buccaneer on May 29, 2023 7:56:38 GMT
Incorrect. The unelected EU Commission do not need permission from any EU body to plan and propose new EU law, they do this on their own initiative. The elected EU parliament have the right to propose amendments to new laws but the unelected commission are not legally obliged to act on this. This shows who holds the real power in the EU. This is way above your paygrade, Red. The unelected Commission 'makes' laws; The unelected UK judiciary makes laws. The unelected Commission makes laws behind closed doors (according to you); The unelected UK judiciary makes laws behind closed doors. Joe Public in the EU can't fire the Commission; Joe Public in the UK can't fire the judges. Get your head out of The Daily Mail. Which one of the two are better qualified in their field of expertise to 'make' laws - UK judiciary or a bunch of commissioners who work from the 'precautionary principle' that can block innovation and progress whereby imaging the very worst scenario without any shred of evidence is the guiding 'principle' in EU law. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 29, 2023 8:00:08 GMT
This is way above your paygrade, Red. The unelected Commission 'makes' laws; The unelected UK judiciary makes laws. The unelected Commission makes laws behind closed doors (according to you); The unelected UK judiciary makes laws behind closed doors. Joe Public in the EU can't fire the Commission; Joe Public in the UK can't fire the judges. Get your head out of The Daily Mail. Which one of the two are better qualified in their field of expertise to 'make' laws - UK judiciary or a bunch of commissioners who work from the 'precautionary principle' that can block innovation and progress whereby imaging the very worst scenario without any shred of evidence is the guiding 'principle' in EU law. This is real progress, Bubbles. We've moved on from the absurd position that the EU is different from the UK, to a new position that judges are simply better at making laws than the Commission. The UK judiciary also work from a 'precautionary principle'. At least most of them do. They're individuals, and their personalities come into play when they make the laws nobody elected them to make. So, what you call 'the precautionary principle', the UK judges will call proceeding 'incrementally and by analogy'. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 29, 2023 8:15:59 GMT
Which one of the two are better qualified in their field of expertise to 'make' laws - UK judiciary or a bunch of commissioners who work from the 'precautionary principle' that can block innovation and progress whereby imaging the very worst scenario without any shred of evidence is the guiding 'principle' in EU law. This is real progress, Bubbles. We've moved on from the absurd position that the EU is different from the UK, to a new position that judges are simply better at making laws than the Commission. The UK judiciary also work from a 'precautionary principle'. At least most of them do. They're individuals, and their personalities come into play when they make the laws nobody elected them to make. So, what you call 'the precautionary principle', the UK judges will call proceeding 'incrementally and by analogy'. Again, what qualifications do the Commissioners hold that allow them to make law, were they barristers, do they have at least experience in working in the legal profession, or can any old person draft up legislation? |
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Post by Einhorn on May 29, 2023 8:18:30 GMT
This is real progress, Bubbles. We've moved on from the absurd position that the EU is different from the UK, to a new position that judges are simply better at making laws than the Commission. The UK judiciary also work from a 'precautionary principle'. At least most of them do. They're individuals, and their personalities come into play when they make the laws nobody elected them to make. So, what you call 'the precautionary principle', the UK judges will call proceeding 'incrementally and by analogy'. Again, so what qualifications do the Commissioners hold that allow them to make law, were they barristers, do they have at least experience in working in the legal profession, or could any old person draft up legislation? Funny, you should say that. The EU is famous for producing well-drafted, well-thought-out laws. They're so good, a country that recently left the EU decided to keep most of them after leaving the EU. They're so good, you only have to open a US law journal to find US academics pleading for laws based on EU legislation to be introduced in the US. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 29, 2023 8:21:19 GMT
Again, so what qualifications do the Commissioners hold that allow them to make law, were they barristers, do they have at least experience in working in the legal profession, or could any old person draft up legislation? Funny, you should say that. The EU is famous for producing well-drafted, well-thought-out laws. They're so good, a country that recently left the EU decided to keep most of them after leaving the EU. They're so good, you only have to open a US law journal to find US academics pleading for laws based on EU legislation to be introduced in the US. Let's see if you swerve this question for a third time. What legal qualifications and experience do the Commissioners have that make them equivalent in the field of law to a UK judge? |
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Post by Einhorn on May 29, 2023 8:26:54 GMT
Funny, you should say that. The EU is famous for producing well-drafted, well-thought-out laws. They're so good, a country that recently left the EU decided to keep most of them after leaving the EU. They're so good, you only have to open a US law journal to find US academics pleading for laws based on EU legislation to be introduced in the US. Let's see if you swerve this question for a third time. What legal qualifications and experience do the Commissioners have that make them equivalent in the field of law to a UK judge? Whatever qualifications the Commission have, the UK judiciary should set out to obtain. Because the laws the Commission make are held in very high esteem around the world. |
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Post by Vinny on May 29, 2023 9:20:16 GMT
Education of the Commission and role in it: Ursula von der Leyen: Economics & medicine. Head honcho of the unelected Commission Frans Timmerman: Literature, law and history. First Vice President and Executive Vice President — European Green Deal Margrethe Vestager: Economics. Executive Vice President and European Commissioner Valdis Dombrovskis: Economics. Executive Vice President and European Commissioner Josep Borrell: Aeronautical engineering & economics. Vice President and High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Maroš Šefčovič: International law. Commissioner for Interinstitutional Relations Věra Jourová: Cultural anthropology. Vice President and European Commissioner — Values and Transparency Dubravka Šuica: Humanities, social sciences English. Vice President and European Commissioner — Democracy and Demography Margaritis Schinas: Batchelor of Laws, Diploma of Advanced European Studies (DAES) in European Public Administration, Master of Science in Public Administration and Policy, and graduate of the EU funded High Potential Leadership programme at Harvard University school of business Vice President and European Commissioner — Promoting the European Way of Life Johannes Hahn: Has a doctorate in philosophy. European Commissioner — Budget and Administration Mariya Gabriel: Graduate in Bulgarian and French languages, International Relations, History of the European Institutions, Political Sociology and Comparative Politics. Master's degree in ‘Comparative Politics and International Relations’. European Commissioner — Innovation, Research, Culture, Education and Youth Nicolas Schmit: Economics. European Commissioner — Jobs and Social Rights Paolo Gentiloni: Political sciences. European Commissioner — Economy Janusz Wojciechowski: Education not listed on wikipedia. European Commissioner — Agriculture Thierry Breton: Masters in electrical engineering and in computer science. European Commissioner — Internal Market If you want to learn about the rest of them: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_der_Leyen_CommissionNone of these people are elected and most of them, even the ones with legal qualifications, do not have a qualification related to their job, which no member of the public elected them to do. At least we can sack our MPs. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 29, 2023 9:23:30 GMT
Let's see if you swerve this question for a third time. What legal qualifications and experience do the Commissioners have that make them equivalent in the field of law to a UK judge? Whatever qualifications the Commission have, the UK judiciary should set out to obtain. Because the laws the Commission make are held in very high esteem around the world. So they are not qualified to set EU law and are allowed to use their interpretation of the 'precautionary principle'. I can see how the UK and EU differ here thanks. UK judges are appointed on their legal qualifications by the JAC and must have at least 5 years legal experience as a barrister or solicitor and undergo a lengthy selection process; while the other is political nobody that requires no legal qualifications whatsoever. Thank you, that's all I wanted to know. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 29, 2023 11:23:51 GMT
Yes - which is wrong - read the link. So, that brings us back to where we were before you interjected with your nonsense, Doc: The unelected UK judges make laws and the unelected Commission 'makes' laws. Once again, showing that Brexiters don't have a clue what they're talking about. As I have already pointed out - in the UK the 'unelected judges' can only make Laws with the permission of Parliament. Compared with the EU where the 'Unelected Commission' can make Laws without the need to take any notice of Parliament. One system is democratic the other is not. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 29, 2023 11:24:14 GMT
Whatever qualifications the Commission have, the UK judiciary should set out to obtain. Because the laws the Commission make are held in very high esteem around the world. So they are not qualified to set EU law and are allowed to use their interpretation of the 'precautionary principle'. I can see how the UK and EU differ here thanks. UK judges are appointed on their legal qualifications by the JAC and must have at least 5 years legal experience as a barrister or solicitor and undergo a lengthy selection process; while the other is political nobody that requires no legal qualifications whatsoever. Thank you, that's all I wanted to know. Erm, they're not barristers, but they work with barristers who advise on the legality of their issues. They're very good barristers, too. The very best, in fact. Only the most distinguished lawyers work with the Commission. Sorry about that, Bubbles. It looks like we're back to where we started: The unelected Commission 'makes' laws; the unelected UK judges make laws. The unelected Commission 'makes laws behind closed doors'; the unelected UK judges make laws behind closed doors. The unelected Commission can't be fired by Joe Public in the EU; the unelected UK judges can't be fire by Joe Public in the UK. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 29, 2023 11:25:13 GMT
So, that brings us back to where we were before you interjected with your nonsense, Doc: The unelected UK judges make laws and the unelected Commission 'makes' laws. Once again, showing that Brexiters don't have a clue what they're talking about. As I have already pointed out - in the UK the 'unelected judges' can only make Laws with the permission of Parliament. Compared with the EU where the 'Unelected Commission' can make Laws without the need to take any notice of Parliament. One system is democratic the other is not. Completely incorrect. You provided a link that related to the law making powers of the Parliament, not the Commission. That was the basis of your position, and it was completely wrong. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 29, 2023 11:30:06 GMT
So they are not qualified to set EU law and are allowed to use their interpretation of the 'precautionary principle'. I can see how the UK and EU differ here thanks. UK judges are appointed on their legal qualifications by the JAC and must have at least 5 years legal experience as a barrister or solicitor and undergo a lengthy selection process; while the other is political nobody that requires no legal qualifications whatsoever. Thank you, that's all I wanted to know. Erm, they're not barristers, but they work with barristers who advise on the legality of their issues. They're very good barristers, too. The very best, in fact. Only the most distinguished lawyers work with the Commission. Sorry about that, Bubbles. It looks like we're back to where we started: The unelected Commission 'makes' laws; the unelected UK judges make laws. The unelected Commission 'makes laws behind closed doors'; the unelected UK judges make laws behind closed doors. The unelected Commission can't be fired by Joe Public in the EU; the unelected UK judges can't be fire by Joe Public in the UK. Unelected and unqualified. That's all I needed to know Darl. |
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Post by patman post on May 29, 2023 11:32:06 GMT
Even worse is happening in EU member states like Germany. What's worse...?
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Post by Einhorn on May 29, 2023 11:32:43 GMT
Erm, they're not barristers, but they work with barristers who advise on the legality of their issues. They're very good barristers, too. The very best, in fact. Only the most distinguished lawyers work with the Commission. Sorry about that, Bubbles. It looks like we're back to where we started: The unelected Commission 'makes' laws; the unelected UK judges make laws. The unelected Commission 'makes laws behind closed doors'; the unelected UK judges make laws behind closed doors. The unelected Commission can't be fired by Joe Public in the EU; the unelected UK judges can't be fire by Joe Public in the UK. Unelected and unqualified. That's all I needed to know Darl. You could say the same about judges in the High Court. As I've already pointed out, they make laws in areas where there are currently no laws. Recently, they created a whole new area of law (unjust enrichment). How can they be qualified in an area that never even existed until they created it. At least, the Commission has to work within the framework of the treaties - that provides guidance. The UK judiciary has no guidance other than it's own imagination. Qualified! LOL!!!  . |
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Post by Vinny on May 29, 2023 14:23:03 GMT
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