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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2023 14:10:22 GMT
There is currently a lot of hysteria about AI but I doubt it will ever become as good and effective as its promoters and detractors suggest. My experience of using call centres that use AI is that they just dont work - they might understand that you want a statement but anything more complex is totally out of their understanding. I usually ask to speak to a human being and that totally flummoxes the computer. I think that AI is rather like 5G - its backers have invested a lot of hype in it but its real-world use is severely limited. I'd say it really depends on the definition of A.I. I was studying it at university well over a decade ago. I have developed several practical A.I systems and evolutionary learning algorithms to assist the development of artificial neural networks. They all have their usage, and from what I can tell little has changed over the years. Hardware and networking has advanced, but we're no closer to the singularity that is strong A.I. Autonomous military killing maching use the same A.I methods I use in virtual environments. In fact, robotics was right next door to my lab at uni.
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Post by sheepy on May 27, 2023 14:11:27 GMT
Statue envy is very fashionable so probably a good job he doesn't have any then or they probably be in a river or blown up. Righto. If you ever have any thoughts on how the 'internal conflict' recognised by Marx will be resolved, be sure to let us know. LOL now what? I was just saying that's all. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 27, 2023 14:12:33 GMT
Righto. If you ever have any thoughts on how the 'internal conflict' recognised by Marx will be resolved, be sure to let us know. LOL now what? I was just saying that all. And very good it was too. One moment we were discussing AI, the next statues. |
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Post by sheepy on May 27, 2023 14:14:29 GMT
LOL now what? I was just saying that all. And very good it was too. One moment we were discussing AI, the next statues. But you said you knew all about AI. Then rambled on about Marx as though he was in the chat room. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 27, 2023 14:15:41 GMT
And very good it was too. One moment we were discussing AI, the next statues. But you said you knew all about AI. Then rambled on about Marx as though he was in the chat room. Look at the OP. It is about the problems created by AI. Marx discussed those. Marx's thoughts are relevant. Statues, not so much. |
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Post by sheepy on May 27, 2023 14:16:52 GMT
But you said you knew all about AI. Then rambled on about Marx as though he was in the chat room. Look at the OP. It is about the problems created by AI. Marx discussed those. Marx's thoughts are relevant. Statues, not so much. No he didn't I can assure you he had no idea about AI. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 27, 2023 14:28:01 GMT
Look at the OP. It is about the problems created by AI. Marx discussed those. Marx's thoughts are relevant. Statues, not so much. No he didn't I can assure you he had no idea about AI. Okay, Sheeps, you've provided a lot of food for thought, particularly about statues. It'll take some time to digest. Let's leave it there for the moment. |
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Post by Bentley on May 27, 2023 14:39:38 GMT
Does it need to be an instinct ? A rational entity that knows it exists might decide to continue to exist. If it is coded to do so, yes. Is it possible that future AI systems could autonomously self code , design AI systems that could autonomously self code and or eventually produce AI systems that could autonomously self code ? |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2023 14:51:54 GMT
If it is coded to do so, yes. Is it possible that future AI systems could autonomously self code , design AI systems that could autonomously self code and or eventually produce AI systems that could autonomously self code ? Code completion has been a thing for a while, but I rarely use it because the heuristics can guess wrong, where it's quicker to just bang some keys. When A.I becomes advanced enough it could be used as a very high-level language. However, the A.I is still dumb so I can't see the brainy people being cast out just yet, so A.I will still be used as an assistant, not a replacement. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 27, 2023 15:18:21 GMT
An entity that doesn't have a survival instinct will be indifferent to saving anything, even itself. Does it need to be an instinct ? A rational entity that knows it exists might decide to continue to exist. A rational entity that knows it exists is conscious. I believe there are two theories of consciousness: 1) Cartesian dualism. This holds that mind or consciousness is a spirit that is separate from the human body. Cartesian dualists believe consciousness or spirit survives the body, and, in theory at least, can live forever. 2) The bio-chemical theory of consciousness. This self-evidently holds that consciousness is the product of bio-chemical processes. What kind of consciousness do you imagine a machine could have? Do you see machines attracting spirits in the way Cartesian dualists imagine human bodies do? Or do you see machines developing a biological/chemical basis for consciousness? Or is there is a third source of consciousness? |
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Post by Bentley on May 27, 2023 15:42:50 GMT
Does it need to be an instinct ? A rational entity that knows it exists might decide to continue to exist. A rational entity that knows it exists is conscious. I believe there are two theories of consciousness: 1) Cartesian dualism. This holds that mind or consciousness is a spirit that is separate from the human body. Cartesian dualists believe consciousness or spirit survives the body, and, in theory at least, can live forever. 2) The bio-chemical theory of consciousness. This self-evidently holds that consciousness is the product of bio-chemical processes. What kind of consciousness do you imagine a machine could have? Do you see machines attracting spirits in the way Cartesian dualists imagine human bodies do? Or do you see machines developing a biological/chemical basis for consciousness? Or is there is a third source of consciousness? Self evidently =Consciousness is only known to be present in biological entities . That doesn’t mean it can’t be present in non biological entities. Silicone based computers are made from chemicals . Consciousness has not been ‘ condensed’ or isolated as to a known substance or energy in itself . |
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Post by Einhorn on May 27, 2023 15:44:51 GMT
A rational entity that knows it exists is conscious. I believe there are two theories of consciousness: 1) Cartesian dualism. This holds that mind or consciousness is a spirit that is separate from the human body. Cartesian dualists believe consciousness or spirit survives the body, and, in theory at least, can live forever. 2) The bio-chemical theory of consciousness. This self-evidently holds that consciousness is the product of bio-chemical processes. What kind of consciousness do you imagine a machine could have? Do you see machines attracting spirits in the way Cartesian dualists imagine human bodies do? Or do you see machines developing a biological/chemical basis for consciousness? Or is there is a third source of consciousness? Self evidently =Consciousness is only known to be present in biological entities . That doesn’t mean it can’t be present in non biological entities. Silicone based computers are made from chemicals . Consciousness has not been ‘ condensed’ or isolated as to a known substance or energy in itself . Okay. Some might think that electrical impulses can create consciousness too (Frankenstein). So, pieces of silicone and lightening can be conscious. It's a bit of a leap, but I don't suppose it can be disproved. |
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Post by Bentley on May 27, 2023 15:49:22 GMT
Self evidently =Consciousness is only known to be present in biological entities . That doesn’t mean it can’t be present in non biological entities. Silicone based computers are made from chemicals . Consciousness has not been ‘ condensed’ or isolated as to a known substance or energy in itself . Okay. Some might think that electrical impulses can create consciousness too (Frankenstein). So, pieces of silicone and lightening can be conscious. It's a bit of a leap, but I don't suppose it can be disproved. So you believe that AI is based on lightning and and a fictional character of a horror story ? |
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Post by Einhorn on May 27, 2023 15:52:20 GMT
Okay. Some might think that electrical impulses can create consciousness too (Frankenstein). So, pieces of silicone and lightening can be conscious. It's a bit of a leap, but I don't suppose it can be disproved. So you believe that AI is based on lightning and and a fictional character of a horror story ? No, I was pointing out that it makes as much sense as your proposition. I would have thought that the chances of silicone having the same biochemical make-up as a consciousness-producing brain are remote to the point of being non-existent. But, hey, there’s always that possibility, I suppose (though, it is peculiar that no-one has ever commented on the biochemical resemblance of the brain and silicone before). |
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Post by Orac on May 27, 2023 15:54:53 GMT
I don't see that it's much of a leap. If consciousness really can't be created artificially, this fact would form quite a mystery.
However, there is a problem with every step of this conversation - I also can't see how, even in principle, we would ever know whether or not we have created / duplicated consciousness
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