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Post by wapentake on May 20, 2023 18:29:14 GMT
Really? You don't care that the craps disappears into your local river? You're not bothered that they haven't built enough reservoirs for the growing population and the farmers are now sucking the rivers dry in summer to irrigate their fields. Frankly I don't believe you are that self centred. Things have improved - OK they could be better but nothing is perfect. If you seek perfection then your dream or returning Water Companies to the control of politicians is going to lead to a whole world of disappointment for you. Things have improved? Really tell that to the poorest who pay more for their energy,please point out to me what improvement there has been when you have energy companies who produce nothing but take fat profits and some close down and who pays? Yes that’s right us mugs,why do we pay ridiculous standing charges do you even know? Utilities should be publicly owned end of. |
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Post by sheepy on May 20, 2023 19:52:33 GMT
Mmmmm well which government you all voted for in say the last 40 years while in office has made the place a better place to live overall?
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Post by zanygame on May 20, 2023 20:17:40 GMT
Really? You don't care that the craps disappears into your local river? You're not bothered that they haven't built enough reservoirs for the growing population and the farmers are now sucking the rivers dry in summer to irrigate their fields. Frankly I don't believe you are that self centred. Things have improved - OK they could be better but nothing is perfect. If you seek perfection then your dream or returning Water Companies to the control of politicians is going to lead to a whole world of disappointment for you. Oh yes lets start the record again. Thy could have been better still if the public utility had got the same cash as the private ones. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 20, 2023 21:21:29 GMT
Things have improved - OK they could be better but nothing is perfect. If you seek perfection then your dream or returning Water Companies to the control of politicians is going to lead to a whole world of disappointment for you. Things have improved? Of course they have. water contamination has fallen to the extent that 93% of UK bathing waters are rated good or excellent, up from 70% in 2009, and double the amount in the 1990's  fair enough - but in those places where it is publicly owned the performance is even worse. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 20, 2023 21:22:40 GMT
Things have improved - OK they could be better but nothing is perfect. If you seek perfection then your dream or returning Water Companies to the control of politicians is going to lead to a whole world of disappointment for you. Oh yes lets start the record again. Thy could have been better still if the public utility had got the same cash as the private ones. Bang! - you understand the problem with getting politicians involved. well done. |
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Post by dodgydave on May 21, 2023 1:20:53 GMT
I was listening to this topic all day yesterday on my little 420 trip to Scotland and back. It was quite depressing how little research had been done. Under nationalisation we under-invested for so long that when the sewerage system requires £600 billion to make it right!! Under privitisation we invest more every year than anybody else in Europe, dead rivers came back to life, leaks are down by 30%, are beaches are cleaner and the drinking water is excellent. It is the same old problem with UK public. We want excellent public services, but we want somebody else to pay for it. This myth that renationalisation will make it all ok again is fucking hilarous. Please point to when it was ok under nationalisation? Can we have some grown ups in power please. Work out what the problem, be honest with the public, and offer an honest solution. You hit the nail on the head referring to investment. Tory dominated parliaments failed to invest in nationalised industries because they were ideologically opposed to it. Nevertheless, the big change in investment in UK water came after EU put pressure on the UK to improve our coastal waters, bathing beaches, somewhere around the early 2000s. You really don't get it do you? I will make it real simple for you... the Tories drive down public services because the average UK citizens hates paying taxes, so they turn a blind eye to it. The average person doesn't swim in UK seas / rivers so they would rather have cheap bills. Look at the outcry now, when they offer to fix the sewers will increased bills... and the average UK citizens does what they do best... demand excellent public services but want somebody else to pay for it! You can keep kidding yourself that everything bad is because of the Tories, and that anything good was forced upon us by the EU, but if you cannot identify the actual problem how do you hope to ever fix it? It is clear to anybody with half a brain that we are living way beyond our means, even with crap public services. So please point to a party that is brave enough to make this point... and then make a case for high taxes and excellent public services. If you disagree, I would politely point you to the last Labour government, that instead of having a honest conversation with the public, used stealth taxes and dodgy PFI contracts instead. |
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Post by wapentake on May 21, 2023 5:43:22 GMT
Of course they have. water contamination has fallen to the extent that 93% of UK bathing waters are rated good or excellent, up from 70% in 2009, and double the amount in the 1990's fair enough - but in those places where it is publicly owned the performance is even worse. You couldn’t answer any of my other points? |
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Post by zanygame on May 21, 2023 6:32:27 GMT
You hit the nail on the head referring to investment. Tory dominated parliaments failed to invest in nationalised industries because they were ideologically opposed to it. Nevertheless, the big change in investment in UK water came after EU put pressure on the UK to improve our coastal waters, bathing beaches, somewhere around the early 2000s. You really don't get it do you? I will make it real simple for you... the Tories drive down public services because the average UK citizens hates paying taxes, so they turn a blind eye to it. The average person doesn't swim in UK seas / rivers so they would rather have cheap bills. Look at the outcry now, when they offer to fix the sewers will increased bills... and the average UK citizens does what they do best... demand excellent public services but want somebody else to pay for it! You can keep kidding yourself that everything bad is because of the Tories, and that anything good was forced upon us by the EU, but if you cannot identify the actual problem how do you hope to ever fix it? It is clear to anybody with half a brain that we are living way beyond our means, even with crap public services. So please point to a party that is brave enough to make this point... and then make a case for high taxes and excellent public services. If you disagree, I would politely point you to the last Labour government, that instead of having a honest conversation with the public, used stealth taxes and dodgy PFI contracts instead. You are wrong about public support for raising taxes, every poll I can find says there is overall support for increasing taxes. "Fifty two per cent of voters support higher taxes and public spending, and just 6 per cent want them cut." www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2022/09/public-support-tax-and-spendPoll of millionaires: 72% support increasing taxes on wealth to help fund public services and the cost of living crisis patrioticmillionaires.uk/latest-news/new-poll-wealthiest-6-percent-of-brits-support-a-wealth-taxYour other point on Labour not being willing to either is shown to be wrong by your own admission that they did indeed increase taxes albeit you claim by stealth (others might say targeted) The big problem we have with public services in this country is the ever growing wealth gap which has left more people unable to pay tax fewer people in the middle incomes and more money with those earning 80k plus a year or simply making money by having money. Tax has not kept up with this change under this Tory government (Surprise surprise). I'm voting Labour to see if that does get adjusted a bit. |
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Post by sheepy on May 21, 2023 6:34:32 GMT
You hit the nail on the head referring to investment. Tory dominated parliaments failed to invest in nationalised industries because they were ideologically opposed to it. Nevertheless, the big change in investment in UK water came after EU put pressure on the UK to improve our coastal waters, bathing beaches, somewhere around the early 2000s. You really don't get it do you? I will make it real simple for you... the Tories drive down public services because the average UK citizens hates paying taxes, so they turn a blind eye to it. The average person doesn't swim in UK seas / rivers so they would rather have cheap bills. Look at the outcry now, when they offer to fix the sewers will increased bills... and the average UK citizens does what they do best... demand excellent public services but want somebody else to pay for it! You can keep kidding yourself that everything bad is because of the Tories, and that anything good was forced upon us by the EU, but if you cannot identify the actual problem how do you hope to ever fix it? It is clear to anybody with half a brain that we are living way beyond our means, even with crap public services. So please point to a party that is brave enough to make this point... and then make a case for high taxes and excellent public services. If you disagree, I would politely point you to the last Labour government, that instead of having a honest conversation with the public, used stealth taxes and dodgy PFI contracts instead. Absolute crap, blaming the electorate for failings of government, who tell them they will fix everything, when they cannot even fix the basics for living standards. While dodgy companies rob them blind in rip off Britain. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 21, 2023 6:41:44 GMT
Of course they have. water contamination has fallen to the extent that 93% of UK bathing waters are rated good or excellent, up from 70% in 2009, and double the amount in the 1990's fair enough - but in those places where it is publicly owned the performance is even worse. You couldn’t answer any of my other points? Sorry - I thought you were just venting.. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 21, 2023 6:43:35 GMT
You really don't get it do you? I will make it real simple for you... the Tories drive down public services because the average UK citizens hates paying taxes, so they turn a blind eye to it. The average person doesn't swim in UK seas / rivers so they would rather have cheap bills. Look at the outcry now, when they offer to fix the sewers will increased bills... and the average UK citizens does what they do best... demand excellent public services but want somebody else to pay for it! You can keep kidding yourself that everything bad is because of the Tories, and that anything good was forced upon us by the EU, but if you cannot identify the actual problem how do you hope to ever fix it? It is clear to anybody with half a brain that we are living way beyond our means, even with crap public services. So please point to a party that is brave enough to make this point... and then make a case for high taxes and excellent public services. If you disagree, I would politely point you to the last Labour government, that instead of having a honest conversation with the public, used stealth taxes and dodgy PFI contracts instead. You are wrong about public support for raising taxes, every poll I can find says there is overall support for increasing taxes. Yet in the polls that matter the people always vote for lower taxes... funny that..  |
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Post by Pacifico on May 21, 2023 6:46:44 GMT
Here is another lefty who keeps saying people want to pay more tax - yet when given the chance he doesn't..  |
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Post by zanygame on May 21, 2023 6:55:49 GMT
You are wrong about public support for raising taxes, every poll I can find says there is overall support for increasing taxes. Yet in the polls that matter the people always vote for lower taxes... funny that.. As stated we are not given that direct choice. Yet the party well known for increasing public spending is miles ahead in the polls funny that. 😂 🤣 |
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Post by zanygame on May 21, 2023 7:02:48 GMT
Here is another lefty who keeps saying people want to pay more tax - yet when given the chance he doesn't.. God, how many times have I seen this stupid argument. Ask an individual who says we should pay more tax to right out a personal cheque to HMRC. When anyone with a brain older than 12 knows it can't work like that. To raise enough tax to make a difference you need to collect from those who can afford it but don't want to pay it. Those who got rich because they lived in Great Britain, but don't want to give back. Amazon etc didn't get rich selling into poor countries with basic public services, they got rich selling into well run stable and safe countries with a healthy population. |
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Post by sheepy on May 21, 2023 7:10:36 GMT
Point one it's the electorates fault they won't give us more money(cobblers) point two I will happily pay more tax, maybe so but not many of you, point three no, no we have cleaned up the water supply(lies) you have had decades to do so, point four we have an overseeing body who are happy we are happy we have done a good job, Bollocks the water is full of sewage. Point five don't get the government involved they are politicians, who will cut our profits and hence make the shareholders unhappy, who are more important than your water supply, bollocks the water is full of sewage. Public utilities should never be in the hands of private companies, true but they are, so what the feck are you going to do about it?
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