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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 16:55:05 GMT
He did build social housing, you lie. I said COUNCIL HOUSING. READ WILL YOU? A mere 0.3% of housing built during the 13 years of Blair / Brown Labour rule was council housing, a pathetic amount. As far as I see it, the number is so small that effectively he did not build council housing. Nor did Brown. I have not said Blair was any good in fact I opposed most of what he did. You are using past examples to excuse the Tories who have had 13 years to sort it out and have done nothing. Deflection.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 16:58:00 GMT
The Tories have not covered themselves in glory, that's for sure. But they didn't open the immigration floodgates either. Yup they did. Full fact. The most recent significant increase we’ve seen was between 2013 and 2014 when it increased by around 50%, from 209,000 to 313,000.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 16:59:00 GMT
Stupid comment by someone who has no idea of just how bad a state the NHS was in, in 1997. A ridiculous state mostly due to Thatcher. Your political knowledge gets 10 out of 10 for PURE BIAS, and f/all for political knowledge. Incidentally there was a 25% cut in NHS funding from 2010. The reason the NHS and indeed social infrastructure is crumbling in this country is because the UK population in 1997 was 58 million. Today in 2023 the UK population is 69 million, and thanks to immigration continues to rise at an alarming rate. So cutting funding has nothing to do with it?
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 17:01:21 GMT
In 2009 the satisfaction rate of the NHS was at a record high, and now look at it
Before anyone uses the Covid excuse, the NHS was already deteriorating fast before anyone had ever heard of Covid. Ambulance response times are a disgrace, people have died.
Where I live, the police are so thinly stretched that they wait until all the bars and pubs are closed at night time before going to arrest anyone, usually about 3 in the morning. The nearest custody suite is 20 miles away, and police vans meet half way, so as to not leave areas dangerously undermaned.
People are marooned in their villages at night time because all the public transport has been cut, and some villages now have no Sunday services any more.
Where once you got a GP appointment in two to three days, now its two or three weeks
There are no NHS dentists
Mental health services for children and young adults is almost non existent
EVeryone knows that everything is now much worse than 13 years ago, whether it be your bus services, the NHS, every public service, trying to see your GP, trying to get help for children with learning difficulties, autism or mental health issues.
We are turning into a third rate country with third rate public services, and I believe a lot of people who voted Tory last time, are giving there votes else where simply because of the idea that "It cant be any worse than this".
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 17:01:53 GMT
immigration up. Living standards down. Pay down. Life expectancy down. Food banks up. NHS waiting lists up. Child poverty up. Homelessness up. Rents up. Mortgages up. Taxes up. Social care availability down. Racism up. Social services down. School funding down. NHS funding down. Food prices up. Petrol prices up. Millionaires up. Houses down. Pot holes up. Pubs down. Cost of living up. Social housing down. Scams up. Jails down. Rail on strike. Nurses on strike. Doctors on strike. Lawyers on strike. Teachers on strike. Libraries down. Fraud up. Prison sentence down. Air quality down. Green initiatives down. Effluent in rivers up. Culture wars up. Crime up. Unsolved crimes up. Mental issues up. Hate crimes up. Street trash up. Union sentiment down. Border checks down. Small boats up. Gerrymandering up. Hate speech up. Hospital waiting lists up. Asylum seekers processing time up. Spending on asylum seekers up. Citizen freedom down. Exports down. Sleaze up. Working people claiming benefits up. Useless PPE stocks up. Cost to store useless PPE up. I have probably missed a load off. Common denominator? And Red Rum gloats. One poster says I am whining another says I am gloating. The truth is probably somewhere in between.
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Post by Red Rackham on May 16, 2023 17:17:40 GMT
Are you totally deranged? The UK birth rate continues to fall, the UK population continues to rise, go figure. This is causing society to fragmentate, communities to become isolated, and creates a lack of trust. You as a devout lefty will of course rubbish this, to be expected. Millions are not, as you say coming into this country you are using the fear tactics of the Tories. If the birth rate is falling are you advocating people should be forced to have babies. If we need more people to work in our sectors we must 'import' them. Over the past 25 years the population of this country has increased from 58 million to 69 million. Never in our history has the population increased so much over such a short period of time. No one was asked, mass immigration was imposed. And to say the overall birth rate is falling is not exactly accurate. The birth rate among British mothers is in decline, some would say serious decline. However the birth rate for immigrant mothers is increasing, indeed immigrant mothers now account for nearly 60% of all births in London, 50% in Manchester and 43% in Birmingham. If this trend continues British people will be a minority within two generations. We do not need more immigration, we need less, a lot less. This level of immigration is doing more damage to this country than the Luftwaffe ever did. I suspect you're thrilled.
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Post by sandypine on May 16, 2023 17:31:21 GMT
In 2009 the satisfaction rate of the NHS was at a record high, and now look at it Before anyone uses the Covid excuse, the NHS was already deteriorating fast before anyone had ever heard of Covid. Ambulance response times are a disgrace, people have died. Where I live, the police are so thinly stretched that they wait until all the bars and pubs are closed at night time before going to arrest anyone, usually about 3 in the morning. The nearest custody suite is 20 miles away, and police vans meet half way, so as to not leave areas dangerously undermaned. People are marooned in their villages at night time because all the public transport has been cut, and some villages now have no Sunday services any more. Where once you got a GP appointment in two to three days, now its two or three weeks There are no NHS dentists Mental health services for children and young adults is almost non existent EVeryone knows that everything is now much worse than 13 years ago, whether it be your bus services, the NHS, every public service, trying to see your GP, trying to get help for children with learning difficulties, autism or mental health issues. We are turning into a third rate country with third rate public services, and I believe a lot of people who voted Tory last time, are giving there votes else where simply because of the idea that "It cant be any worse than this". Several points there. The PFI contracts supplied the goods, the bill for that was passed on to following governments. Do you think increasing the population by about 8 million with culturally different people has a bearing on what is happening? WE have had Tory governments before and things did not reach this state in their time. The only thing that is effectively different is the large swathes of immigrant communities the arrival of whom was facilitated in the first instance by NewLabour.
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Post by Pacifico on May 16, 2023 17:39:19 GMT
EVeryone knows that everything is now much worse than 13 years ago, whether it be your bus services, the NHS, every public service, trying to see your GP, trying to get help for children with learning difficulties, autism or mental health issues. Looks like Labour throwing open the door to mass immigration didnt work out to well?...
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Post by Vinny on May 16, 2023 17:55:16 GMT
Red Rum, I don't like the Tories, Labour or any party that has governed, either nationally or regionally.
I vote by whoever is the least shit option on the ballot paper.
At least we're a democracy and can sack the bastards who work for us.
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Post by Vinny on May 16, 2023 18:13:57 GMT
In 2009 the satisfaction rate of the NHS was at a record high, and now look at it Before anyone uses the Covid excuse, the NHS was already deteriorating fast before anyone had ever heard of Covid. Ambulance response times are a disgrace, people have died. Where I live, the police are so thinly stretched that they wait until all the bars and pubs are closed at night time before going to arrest anyone, usually about 3 in the morning. The nearest custody suite is 20 miles away, and police vans meet half way, so as to not leave areas dangerously undermaned. People are marooned in their villages at night time because all the public transport has been cut, and some villages now have no Sunday services any more. Where once you got a GP appointment in two to three days, now its two or three weeks There are no NHS dentists Mental health services for children and young adults is almost non existent EVeryone knows that everything is now much worse than 13 years ago, whether it be your bus services, the NHS, every public service, trying to see your GP, trying to get help for children with learning difficulties, autism or mental health issues. We are turning into a third rate country with third rate public services, and I believe a lot of people who voted Tory last time, are giving there votes else where simply because of the idea that "It cant be any worse than this". In 2009 it was on tick. Now it's payback time.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 19:48:40 GMT
In 2009 the satisfaction rate of the NHS was at a record high, and now look at it Before anyone uses the Covid excuse, the NHS was already deteriorating fast before anyone had ever heard of Covid. Ambulance response times are a disgrace, people have died. Where I live, the police are so thinly stretched that they wait until all the bars and pubs are closed at night time before going to arrest anyone, usually about 3 in the morning. The nearest custody suite is 20 miles away, and police vans meet half way, so as to not leave areas dangerously undermaned. People are marooned in their villages at night time because all the public transport has been cut, and some villages now have no Sunday services any more. Where once you got a GP appointment in two to three days, now its two or three weeks There are no NHS dentists Mental health services for children and young adults is almost non existent EVeryone knows that everything is now much worse than 13 years ago, whether it be your bus services, the NHS, every public service, trying to see your GP, trying to get help for children with learning difficulties, autism or mental health issues. We are turning into a third rate country with third rate public services, and I believe a lot of people who voted Tory last time, are giving there votes else where simply because of the idea that "It cant be any worse than this". Several points there. The PFI contracts supplied the goods, the bill for that was passed on to following governments. Do you think increasing the population by about 8 million with culturally different people has a bearing on what is happening? WE have had Tory governments before and things did not reach this state in their time. The only thing that is effectively different is the large swathes of immigrant communities the arrival of whom was facilitated in the first instance by NewLabour. Actually no - PFI contracts were not passed onto the following government, PFI contracts work like loans or mortgages, and are held by either the hospital or the health trust. The appaling state of our public services including the NHS has got nothing to do with immigrants, but has everything to do with cuts to funding. Same old bull shit from Tory apologists - blame Johnny Foreigner for everything, just like the Nazi's did in 1930s Germany, when everything was the fault of the Jews. The biggest influx of foreigners in modern times was as a result of the EU10 joining the European Union in 2004, whereby many thousands of Easter Europeans came here to live and WORK. This was as a result of Freedom Of Movement, which was agreed to and signed BY A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT within The Maastricht Treaty. So wrong on all counts
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 20:03:26 GMT
Public Finance Initiatives ( PFI's ) were not ever used by Tony Blair or Gordon Brown to decrease waiting lists, decrease waiting times, hire thousands of extra doctors, hire thousand of extra nurses, increase NHS funding, or to invest in new equipment or to refurbish crumbling hospitals.
PFI contracts were used in SOME instances to build new hospitals, from 1997 to 2010 a total of 50 hospitals over a 13 year period.
The question is not about whether Tony Blair or Gordon Brown should have used PFI to build much needed new hospitals.
The question is WHY have the Conservatives starved ALL public services of investment and funding for 13 years, so much so that they are now in a terrible state. ?
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Post by sandypine on May 16, 2023 20:13:54 GMT
Several points there. The PFI contracts supplied the goods, the bill for that was passed on to following governments. Do you think increasing the population by about 8 million with culturally different people has a bearing on what is happening? WE have had Tory governments before and things did not reach this state in their time. The only thing that is effectively different is the large swathes of immigrant communities the arrival of whom was facilitated in the first instance by NewLabour. Actually no - PFI contracts were not passed onto the following government, PFI contracts work like loans or mortgages, and are held by either the hospital or the health trust. The appaling state of our public services including the NHS has got nothing to do with immigrants, but has everything to do with cuts to funding. Same old bull shit from Tory apologists - blame Johnny Foreigner for everything, just like the Nazi's did in 1930s Germany, when everything was the fault of the Jews. The biggest influx of foreigners in modern times was as a result of the EU10 joining the European Union in 2004, whereby many thousands of Easter Europeans came here to live and WORK. This was as a result of Freedom Of Movement, which was agreed to and signed BY A CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT within The Maastricht Treaty. So wrong on all counts PFI contracts have to be serviced, how that cost is proportioned and accounted is really of no consequence it is an ongoing cost within the finance of the NHS and has an effect on it So to be clear you are saying that the increase in population of some 15% in as many years, mostly down to immigration, has absolutely nothing to do with anything else and will not affect health care, education, housing, transport, social services, jobs etc. Freedom of movement was signed by a Tory government where all member states were of a similar economic level, it was NewLabour who saw an opportunity to boost the economy by allowing in cheaper foreign labour en masse whilst messing all over those who were supposed to be their core support. Everything has a price.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 20:39:40 GMT
sandypine >> So to be clear you are saying that the increase in population of some 15% in as many years, mostly down to immigration, has absolutely nothing to do with anything else and will not affect health care, education, housing, transport, social services, jobs etc. Freedom of movement was signed by a Tory government where all member states were of a similar economic level, it was NewLabour who saw an opportunity to boost the economy by allowing in cheaper foreign labour en masse whilst messing all over those who were supposed to be their core support. Everything has a price. -----------------------------------------------------------------------
The current population of the UK is 68 million, an increase of approximately 5 million since the previous census in 2011, an increase of less than 10%.
The UK population also went up sharply between 2001 and 2011, by approximately 4 million
Both of these rises can MOSTLY be attributed to the EU10 joining the European Union, plus Bulgaria and Romania joining in 2007.
The population of the UK has always gone up between census's, mostly between 1 and 4 million
The average Eastern European who arrived in the UK through Freedom Of Movement, are young, healthy, they work, and they pay both direct and indirect taxes.
I repeat that the appaling state of our NHS and other public services has got nothing to do with immigrants, but has everything to do with cuts to public services ( which you seem to be in denial about ) and underfunding.
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Post by Pacifico on May 16, 2023 20:58:19 GMT
The question is WHY have the Conservatives starved ALL public services of investment and funding for 13 years, so much so that they are now in a terrible state. ? Starved of investment takes on a whole new meaning when public spending is higher under the Tories than it ever was under New Labour..
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