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Post by Pacifico on May 16, 2023 6:55:59 GMT
If starmer goes the full hogg and not only does that but brings in PR , you could lock the tories out of westminster forevermore. Delusional again...  There is a myth flying around that PR will magically produce permanent progressive coalitions - unfortunately the reality from around Europe where PR is used shows that right-wing parties have no problem gaining power. Italy have just elected their first Fascist government since WW2. |
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Post by Dan Dare on May 16, 2023 7:12:28 GMT
A person who is a UK resident, but not a British citizen has the right to vote in UK general elections if they are a citizen of FIFTY SIX nations belonging to The Commonwealth. So explain in your own words why a person from the EU, who has chosen the UK as a home, and who lives and works here, should not have the same right. ? A more rational question to ask would be: 'Why do Commonwealth citizens have the right to vote in all UK elections while almost none of them except for a few small Caribbean islands extend the same right to British citizens resident there?"
Commonwealth citizens include citizens of countries which have no historical or political connection to Britain including Mozambique, Rwanda and Gabon.
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Post by sheepy on May 16, 2023 7:28:26 GMT
We are in the anything Starmer says stage of is pure brilliance when it is just pure nonsense, but hey ho, onwards and upwards. not really sheepwash. We are at the stage the enitre uk is fucking sick to death of these tory barstewards and the mess they have made that starmer can say what he likes , he is about to fall into place as the next prime minister , for good or ill.
Thats the down side of the two party stitch up. You dont have to be good at politics , only look marginally less worse than your opposite number in a two horse race.
Its also quite simple, everybody will think they will get what they want, but in actual fact the only people getting what they want is the Westminster party. |
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Post by see2 on May 16, 2023 7:37:04 GMT
You literally said people vote for idiots, which is just your biased opinion of the politicans people voted for. Hence you think 16-18 will vote "the right way". Now I'm guessing the "right way" is people on the left. Unless you are going to seriously tell me that you think people that voted for a Labour MP were voting for "idiots" hahaha. The UK left the EUSSR because Britain was losing it's own idenity of being a sovereign nation which was being eroded by the EUSSR. And now this total prick starmer is atempting to give our sovereignty away just so he can stay relevant and remain in power. The bloke is a total deluded self serving arsehole like all of those on the loony left. The Germans were no lees German, the French were no less French, and the UKSSR was no less British for it membership of the EU. |
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Post by sheepy on May 16, 2023 7:38:38 GMT
^^^^ lol.
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Post by Pacifico on May 16, 2023 7:42:29 GMT
If somebody has been here for "ten, twenty, thirty years" and hasn't got British citizenship, then they obviously don't want it and are not that bothered about the ability to vote.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 16, 2023 7:45:52 GMT
Starmer really hasn't a clue, has he? |
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Post by sheepy on May 16, 2023 7:49:48 GMT
Starmer really hasn't a clue, has he? He is going to change the face of Britain, mmmm where have I heard that one before? |
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Post by see2 on May 16, 2023 7:49:57 GMT
Starmer really hasn't a clue, has he? A post that shows more projection by yourself ^^^ |
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Post by buccaneer on May 16, 2023 8:00:46 GMT
A 16 and 17 year old is old enough to think rationally and observe the world around them and see things they believe to be wrong and believe to be right. And they can do many things that someone below 16 cannot do. That includes living away from home, working and paying taxes on their earnings, riding a moped and 17 driving a car. They can legally have sex and make babies regardless of whether they are married or not. It seems reasonable enough to include putting a cross in a box as another of the things they can do. That age group makes up a small part of the potential electorate so I fail to see what is so scary about it, nor why casting one vote alongside millions of others should be regarded as such a huge responsibility. The rest of us have not done so well when it comes to voting for sensible people. Just look at some of the idiots we elect. Yet they are literally treated differently by the criminal justice system because it is widely acknowledged that their thinking is not fully developed. Those idiots in charge in Scotland let rapists under 25 avoid prison because they have "underdeveloped brains", yet they allow them to vote and self-identify their sex lol. Come on, you admit it yourself in the last part of your response. You want them to vote because you are sure that most of them will vote "sensibly" (ie left wing).Yes. He outed himself there. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 16, 2023 8:06:38 GMT
We are in the anything Starmer says stage of is pure brilliance when it is just pure nonsense, but hey ho, onwards and upwards. not really sheepwash. We are at the stage the enitre uk is fucking sick to death of these tory barstewards and the mess they have made that starmer can say what he likes , he is about to fall into place as the next prime minister , for good or ill.
Thats the down side of the two party stitch up. You dont have to be good at politics , only look marginally less worse than your opposite number in a two horse race.
Well, you've hedged your bets for long enough trying to stir shit between Labour and Conservatives.As well as Britain and Wales, Britain and Ireland, Britain and Scotland and Britain and France ad nauseam. At least after all of your bile towards Starmer on here, you've nailed your colours to the mast, and have decided Starmer is your preferred choice now that the SNP have fallen spectacularly on their 'arris's'. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 16, 2023 8:15:01 GMT
If starmer goes the full hogg and not only does that but brings in PR , you could lock the tories out of westminster forevermore. Delusional again... There is a myth flying around that PR will magically produce permanent progressive coalitions - unfortunately the reality from around Europe where PR is used shows that right-wing parties have no problem gaining power. Italy have just elected their first Fascist government since WW2.
Funny isn't it - the left always see PR as ensuring a permanent left-wing alliance. But it's not that long since UKIP got 4 million votes and I see a Tory/UKIP/Reform coalition being just as likely as a Lib/Lab one. Especially if Scotland/Wales/NI get jettisoned - England would be a permanent right wing coalition.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 8:19:29 GMT
Your point is not well made " very few of vinnys "points" ever are to be fair red.
i tell you , these backward tories on here seem rather irritable at the minute dont you think?
If the age of legal capacity in scotland is 16 , and people like vinny want all the uk countires to be the same , then i see no reason why england cant come into line with scotland and lower the age from 18 to 16 , along with voting and giving eu/foreign citizens the vote.
If starmer goes the full hogg and not only does that but brings in PR , you could lock the tories out of westminster forevermore. With the massive lead in the polls , it must be fucking tempting.?
The sooner the better. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 16, 2023 8:22:29 GMT
My kids are 17 and 18 and they have absolutely no interest in politics, so I doubt that most 16 and 17 year olds will bother to vote in the first place.
And, if my kids did vote, they would look to me for guidance so in effect I would have three votes.
So I don't think that it would make much practical difference. I simply question the wisdom of the Government giving the vote to someone that they, the Government, define as a child. So we have the absurd position of someone considered too immature for one purpose being considered perfectly mature enough for another.
It's an absurdity and, as has been said elsewhere, it raises questions about the age of majority (which, personally I think should be 18 for everything).
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2023 9:08:55 GMT
The argument, no taxation without a vote doesn't really hold water. When a 9 year old goes to a shop to buy sweets or crisps, they pay tax. Are we going to give them the vote. Also, is it right that a 16 year old has to have mummy present at a police interview, but can vote without mummy present? And a 16 year old can no longer marry. This idea will seriously screw up the "Age of majority" in the UK and the whole issue of who is an adult would need to be reviewed. Would you go into a shop and hand the shopkeeper £50 and tell him to give you whatever he wants for it? Relevance to my post is? NIL Either debate or don't type, it's not that difficult. |
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