|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 19:03:09 GMT
Bullshit! 'Property' can and should be arbitrarily stripped where the 'owner' never had a moral right to it. No compensation is required. Things are compensated by customs all the time. The real evil wasn't stripping the slave owners of their 'property', it was recognising that human beings could be property in the first place. Is not bullshit, the principle has been enshrined in law for the past 800 years. How would you feel if you could be arbitrarily stripped of your house because the state determined you had no moral right to it on account of the fact that it could be used to house 10 homeless people, and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few Jesus Christ! We're talking about human beings being classified as 'property' and this is the best you can do? |
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on May 18, 2023 19:05:11 GMT
Bullshit! 'Property' can and should be arbitrarily stripped where the 'owner' never had a moral right to it. No compensation is required. Things are compensated by customs all the time. The real evil wasn't stripping the slave owners of their 'property', it was recognising that human beings could be property in the first place. Is not bullshit, the principle has been enshrined in law for the past 800 years. How would you feel if you could be arbitrarily stripped of your house because the state determined you had no moral right to it on account of the fact that it could be used to house 10 homeless people, and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few Well you were stripped of that right in WW2,national emergency and all that. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 19:11:39 GMT
Pull the other one Darlene ….Socialism..political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. I have said that China is a pseudo Capitalist state but …The CCP maintains that despite the co-existence of private capitalists and entrepreneurs with public and collective enterprise, China is not a capitalist country because the party retains control over the direction of the country, maintaining its course of socialist development. Yes . The UK who sold off all the council housing plus most of the nationalised industries and services has become increasingly socialist.lol . LOL! Righty: China is becoming more capitalist. Lefty: Capitalism is becoming more socialist (look at rights accrued by workers in the past 100 years, look at Obama care in the US, the world's most capitalist country, etc., etc.) It looks like deadlock until you consider that Maoism and Marxism are too completely things, and that socialism has been making inroads into naked capitalism for far longer than China has been veering from its Maoist roots. Lol! ? China is effectively a state controlled capitalist state . They know that the Marxist fantasy is just that . A fantasy . The USSR claimed to be a socialist republic..was it? Maoism was plan B, C, or D after it became obvious the Marxist utopia is a fantasy that wasnt working . Mao was just another sociopathic fantasist who thought communism didn’t work in the past because he wasn’t in charge . Socialism ‘making in roads ‘ ? Lol. Now you claim there are two ‘ capitalisms ‘ the naked kind ( presumably a nasty one ) and the modern nicer one ( presumably a clothed kind). In other words you could say that capitalism has adapted ……….oh look I did ..several times ……now we can Lol! 😉 |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 19:13:07 GMT
LOL! Righty: China is becoming more capitalist. Lefty: Capitalism is becoming more socialist (look at rights accrued by workers in the past 100 years, look at Obama care in the US, the world's most capitalist country, etc., etc.) It looks like deadlock until you consider that Maoism and Marxism are too completely things, and that socialism has been making inroads into naked capitalism for far longer than China has been veering from its Maoist roots. Lol! ? China is effectively a state controlled capitalist state . They know that the Marxist fantasy is just that . A fantasy . The USSR claimed to be a socialist republic..was it? Maoism was plan B, C, or D after it became obvious the Marxist utopia is a fantasy that wasnt working . Mao was just another sociopathic fantasist who thought communism didn’t work in the past because he wasn’t in charge . Socialism ‘making in roads ‘ ? Lol. Now you claim there are two ‘ capitalisms ‘ the naked kind ( presumably a nasty one ) and the modern nicer one ( presumably a clothed kind). In other words you could say that capitalism has adapted ……….oh look I did ..several times ……now we can Lol! 😉 LOL! You keep saying that communism has failed in China because it is becoming increasingly capitalist, all the while ignoring the fact that capitalism in the West must also have failed because it is becoming increasingly socialist.  |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 19:14:16 GMT
I suspect compensating slave owners was the only way to abolish it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 19:15:22 GMT
I suspect compensating slave owners was the only way to abolish it. Who compensated the slave owners? And if that was the only way to abolish slavery in early capitalism, you can hardly claim that early capitalism had much more going for it than early communism. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 19:18:25 GMT
Lol! ? China is effectively a state controlled capitalist state . They know that the Marxist fantasy is just that . A fantasy . The USSR claimed to be a socialist republic..was it? Maoism was plan B, C, or D after it became obvious the Marxist utopia is a fantasy that wasnt working . Mao was just another sociopathic fantasist who thought communism didn’t work in the past because he wasn’t in charge . Socialism ‘making in roads ‘ ? Lol. Now you claim there are two ‘ capitalisms ‘ the naked kind ( presumably a nasty one ) and the modern nicer one ( presumably a clothed kind). In other words you could say that capitalism has adapted ……….oh look I did ..several times ……now we can Lol! 😉 LOL! You keep saying that communism has failed in China because it is becoming increasingly capitalist, all the while ignoring the fact that capitalism in the West must also have failed because it is becoming increasingly socialist. lol! You keep reading what is in between your ears and not what is posted. Communism failed and was replaced by state controlled capitalism….not communism becoming INCREASINGLY capitalist. You are ignoring the fact that capitalism hasn’t become increasingly socialist ( see definition of socialism) it has adapted and sustained its success. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 19:21:23 GMT
I suspect compensating slave owners was the only way to abolish it. Who compensated the slave owners? And if that was the only way to abolish slavery in early capitalism, you can hardly claim that early capitalism had much more going for it than early communism. There is only early communism. Communism fails every time . Capitalism adapts and survives . Try to keep up Darlene . |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 19:21:54 GMT
LOL! You keep saying that communism has failed in China because it is becoming increasingly capitalist, all the while ignoring the fact that capitalism in the West must also have failed because it is becoming increasingly socialist. lol! You keep reading what is in between your ears and not what is posted. Communism failed and was replaced by state controlled capitalism….not communism becoming INCREASINGLY capitalist. You are ignoring the fact that capitalism hasn’t become increasingly socialist ( see definition of socialism) it has adapted and sustained its success. So, increased labour rights, the vote for the ordinary person, the NHS, all these things are the product of market forces, are they? No, they aren't. They're the socialist benefits of class struggle. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 19:22:35 GMT
Who compensated the slave owners? And if that was the only way to abolish slavery in early capitalism, you can hardly claim that early capitalism had much more going for it than early communism. There is only early communism. Communism fails every time . Capitalism adapts and survives . Try to keep up Darlene . Yep, and by your measure capitalism is failing because it is becoming increasingly socialist. Just facts, Ben Dover. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on May 18, 2023 19:28:34 GMT
You may imagine many things but do you have an example. The problem is the British Empire did exist and did have an effect. Finding a non influenced British or European Empire country within which democracy arose independently should really be a dawdle if it happened now we are in the 21st century. Before the scramble for Africa there are none there, in fact the exact opposite in many cases. The Arab countries of North Africa and the ME did not see any, The Soviet states before Sovietisation had one or two possibles as the Tsar was pressured but then that was a European dynasty. Well, you have to admit that it's going to be a struggle to find one, given how many countries were actually brought within European empires. Without giving it much thought, I suppose Turkey might be an example. Turkey? The country that was so democratic that every single Remainer said it had no chance of joining the EU this side of the 22nd century and with whom the EU were sending in personnel to teach them what was required. Do you want to try again? |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 19:29:59 GMT
Well, you have to admit that it's going to be a struggle to find one, given how many countries were actually brought within European empires. Without giving it much thought, I suppose Turkey might be an example. Turkey? The country that was so democratic that every single Remainer said it had no chance of joining the EU this side of the 22nd century and with whom the EU were sending in personnel to teach them what was required. Do you want to try again? Well, yeah, there are degrees of democracy. Are you saying that the UK was more democratic than modern Turkey at the height of Empire? If I recall correctly, the average man didn't get the vote until 1918. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 19:32:51 GMT
Well, you have to admit that it's going to be a struggle to find one, given how many countries were actually brought within European empires. Without giving it much thought, I suppose Turkey might be an example. Turkey? The country that was so democratic that every single Remainer said it had no chance of joining the EU this side of the 22nd century and with whom the EU were sending in personnel to teach them what was required. Do you want to try again? A quick question, Sandy: did the average Indian have more or less voting rights than the modern Turk at the point of Britain's withdrawal from India? |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on May 18, 2023 19:33:04 GMT
lol! You keep reading what is in between your ears and not what is posted. Communism failed and was replaced by state controlled capitalism….not communism becoming INCREASINGLY capitalist. You are ignoring the fact that capitalism hasn’t become increasingly socialist ( see definition of socialism) it has adapted and sustained its success. So, increased labour rights, the vote for the ordinary person, the NHS, all these things are the product of market forces, are they? No, they aren't. They're the socialist benefits of class struggle. They are not the result of a collectivist society and do not reflect the definition of socialism …………political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. You seem to be under the delusion that capitalism can only be the capitalism that exists in your head and everything good about society must be a form of socialism. You have been groomed Darlene . |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on May 18, 2023 19:34:50 GMT
So, increased labour rights, the vote for the ordinary person, the NHS, all these things are the product of market forces, are they? No, they aren't. They're the socialist benefits of class struggle. They are not the result of a collectivist society and do not reflect the definition of socialism …………political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. You seem to be under the delusion that capitalism can only be the capitalism that exists in your head and everything good about society must be a form of socialism. You have been groomed Darlene . LOL! Explain how the NHS, the vote for the ordinary man, and increased workers' rights are the product of capitalist market forces, Benny. You can't, can you? There's a good reason for that: they don't exist because of capitalism, they exist despite capitalism. Capitalist market forces didn't create them; class struggle did. |
|
