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Post by Einhorn on May 16, 2023 12:07:51 GMT
Yep, and Fred West was better than Harold Shipman. Whoppee do! Progress is all that matters - you cannot create a paradise overnight. A paradise for whom? If Brits were being treated like shit at home, it's hard to believe that the government of the time cared about the average Indian. |
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Post by sandypine on May 16, 2023 12:32:01 GMT
No it is naive to believe that the only reason good things happened was because it was an advantage to 'the elite' in some direct or indirect way. Life and the universe is far more complicated than your simple take on cause and effect. If helping the poor and needy was at the front of the government's mind, more than a million of its citizens wouldn't have died from starvation. You are falling into the old trap of looking at morality and views from a 21st century perspective instead of accepting that at that time a different moral code held sway even amongst those being exploited. It was not the rich who pushed children up chimneys it was their peers in their class. It was accepted by the rich as the way of the world until the morality code caught up and that code tended to be pressured down from above as opposed to sought to be changed from below. It was not the chimney sweeps who stopped children cleaning chimneys it was the elite you seem to think were all encompassing self centred beings; I suppose that suits your agenda. |
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Post by bancroft on May 16, 2023 12:35:17 GMT
India is part of the BRICs and buying fuel from Russia.
I think this is a non-story, valuable stone given by some 'Indian dignitary' to a representative of Britain that gave it to the Queen.
Now if the story is different that some officer of the British empire shot the natives to take the stone, I would say they have a good claim yet again I notice Pakistan has a claim too.
Modhi is also playing politics read this 'Mr Modi said in a speech this year: “We have a wonderful history of about 2,000 and 5,000 years. This cut-off (colonial rule) has done a lot of damage to us."
Who is the we? There was no India before Britain only a number of separate kingdoms and most of them under Muslim rulers.
This a political noise and should be reviewed as part of the BRICs attack against UK as part of the US umbrella against Russian invasion of Ukraine.
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Post by Einhorn on May 16, 2023 12:38:30 GMT
If helping the poor and needy was at the front of the government's mind, more than a million of its citizens wouldn't have died from starvation. You are falling into the old trap of looking at morality and views from a 21st century perspective instead of accepting that at that time a different moral code held sway even amongst those being exploited. It was not the rich who pushed children up chimneys it was their peers in their class. It was accepted by the rich as the way of the world until the morality code caught up and that code tended to be pressured down from above as opposed to sought to be changed from below. It was not the chimney sweeps who stopped children cleaning chimneys it was the elite you seem to think were all encompassing self centred beings; I suppose that suits your agenda. It suits my agenda to point out that Rees-Mogg was talking his usual bullshit when he said The Empire was something to be proud of. The descendants of those who were hanged for stealing bread, had their limbs mangled in machinery and lived in slum conditions have nothing to be nostalgic about. The Empire was ruled by Eton and Harrow. They got a LOT out of it. Their cannon fodder didn't do so well. If you want to celebrate Grandma x 5 having to sell her body to feed herself, don't let me stop you. |
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Post by sandypine on May 16, 2023 12:50:14 GMT
You are falling into the old trap of looking at morality and views from a 21st century perspective instead of accepting that at that time a different moral code held sway even amongst those being exploited. It was not the rich who pushed children up chimneys it was their peers in their class. It was accepted by the rich as the way of the world until the morality code caught up and that code tended to be pressured down from above as opposed to sought to be changed from below. It was not the chimney sweeps who stopped children cleaning chimneys it was the elite you seem to think were all encompassing self centred beings; I suppose that suits your agenda. It suits my agenda to point out that Rees-Mogg was talking his usual bullshit when he said The Empire was something to be proud of. The descendants of those who were hanged for stealing bread, had their limbs mangled in machinery and lived in slum conditions have nothing to be nostalgic about. The Empire was ruled by Eton and Harrow. They got a LOT out of it. Their cannon fodder didn't do so well. If you want to celebrate Grandma x 5 having to sell her body to feed herself, don't let me stop you. Which of course is why you have to have a sense of balance. If we are talking cannon fodder then NewLabour were more than keen to carry on that tradition for 'statesman' like reasons. Just because many of those in power think that the lives of others are theirs to risk and dispose of at will does not mean that others within the same group know better. Of all the inequities perpetrated by the few on teh many there were also many of the few who tempered the excesses and changed the outlook |
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Post by Einhorn on May 16, 2023 12:52:54 GMT
It suits my agenda to point out that Rees-Mogg was talking his usual bullshit when he said The Empire was something to be proud of. The descendants of those who were hanged for stealing bread, had their limbs mangled in machinery and lived in slum conditions have nothing to be nostalgic about. The Empire was ruled by Eton and Harrow. They got a LOT out of it. Their cannon fodder didn't do so well. If you want to celebrate Grandma x 5 having to sell her body to feed herself, don't let me stop you. Which of course is why you have to have a sense of balance. If we are talking cannon fodder then NewLabour were more than keen to carry on that tradition for 'statesman' like reasons. Just because many of those in power think that the lives of others are theirs to risk and dispose of at will does not mean that others within the same group know better. Of all the inequities perpetrated by the few on teh many there were also many of the few who tempered the excesses and changed the outlook Meh! The Empire was still a shit time for the average Brit. If you want to pretend otherwise, don't let me stop you. |
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Post by Dan Dare on May 16, 2023 12:56:47 GMT
As I've pointed out to you before industrial workers in Britain had greatly superior living conditions to those in continental Europe for most of the 19th century and for much of the 20th too.
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Post by Einhorn on May 16, 2023 13:00:31 GMT
As I've pointed out to you before industrial workers in Britain had greatly superior living conditions to those in continental Europe for most of the 19th century and for much of the 20th too. Did they? Were there 11 squeezed into a single room in slum tenements in Europe, while the UK worker lived a life of splendour and luxury in a slum tenement with only 9 other occupants per room? Did the legions of UK prostitutes have better, cleaner alleys to be fucked in? Were the UK's children hanged with better quality rope? Gee! No wonder Rees-Mogg was so excited! |
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Post by sandypine on May 16, 2023 13:25:55 GMT
Which of course is why you have to have a sense of balance. If we are talking cannon fodder then NewLabour were more than keen to carry on that tradition for 'statesman' like reasons. Just because many of those in power think that the lives of others are theirs to risk and dispose of at will does not mean that others within the same group know better. Of all the inequities perpetrated by the few on teh many there were also many of the few who tempered the excesses and changed the outlook Meh! The Empire was still a shit time for the average Brit. If you want to pretend otherwise, don't let me stop you. Only by comparison with what we have now. By comparison with what went before it was an improving picture for most but still with many problems. Take New Lanark by the early 1800s, most workers had their own small house and were well fed and looked after in terms of welfare and health. The price to pay of course was that the boss effectively ruled their lives in the name of improvement. The Elite, like the Empire were liberal in their cause in that the took control of the lower classes and foreign civilisations for their own good. Not the way we think now but doing good for the wrong reasons is still doing good. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 16, 2023 13:35:03 GMT
Meh! The Empire was still a shit time for the average Brit. If you want to pretend otherwise, don't let me stop you. Only by comparison with what we have now. By comparison with what went before it was an improving picture for most but still with many problems. Take New Lanark by the early 1800s, most workers had their own small house and were well fed and looked after in terms of welfare and health. The price to pay of course was that the boss effectively ruled their lives in the name of improvement. The Elite, like the Empire were liberal in their cause in that the took control of the lower classes and foreign civilisations for their own good. Not the way we think now but doing good for the wrong reasons is still doing good. For crying out loud! When was Waterloo fought? Do you know how Wellington described the men who died for him at Waterloo? He called them 'the very scum of the earth'. That's what British people were to the elite of that time. Nothing more than cannon fodder. Peterloo wasn't long after. When people peacefully protesting for democratic rights were killed by gammons-in-waiting on horseback, arseholes who didn't think twice about killing their own people if a flag was waved under their nose. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 16, 2023 13:47:15 GMT
You are falling into the old trap of looking at morality and views from a 21st century perspective instead of accepting that at that time a different moral code held sway even amongst those being exploited. It was not the rich who pushed children up chimneys it was their peers in their class. It was accepted by the rich as the way of the world until the morality code caught up and that code tended to be pressured down from above as opposed to sought to be changed from below. It was not the chimney sweeps who stopped children cleaning chimneys it was the elite you seem to think were all encompassing self centred beings; I suppose that suits your agenda. It suits my agenda to point out that Rees-Mogg was talking his usual bullshit when he said The Empire was something to be proud of. The descendants of those who were hanged for stealing bread, had their limbs mangled in machinery and lived in slum conditions have nothing to be nostalgic about. The Empire was ruled by Eton and Harrow. They got a LOT out of it. Their cannon fodder didn't do so well. If you want to celebrate Grandma x 5 having to sell her body to feed herself, don't let me stop you. Stop dribbling shit, Darling. The Empire may have been ruled by Eton & Harrow but the industrial revolution was largely working class driven. |
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Post by Einhorn on May 16, 2023 13:57:49 GMT
It suits my agenda to point out that Rees-Mogg was talking his usual bullshit when he said The Empire was something to be proud of. The descendants of those who were hanged for stealing bread, had their limbs mangled in machinery and lived in slum conditions have nothing to be nostalgic about. The Empire was ruled by Eton and Harrow. They got a LOT out of it. Their cannon fodder didn't do so well. If you want to celebrate Grandma x 5 having to sell her body to feed herself, don't let me stop you. Stop dribbling shit, Darling. The Empire may have been ruled by Eton & Harrow but the industrial revolution was largely working class driven. Yep, it was working class driven in the same way that the bridge on the River Kwai was working class driven, Squeaky. A good time was had by all. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 16, 2023 14:01:01 GMT
I wasn't expecting an intelligent reply and as usual you didn't disappoint.  |
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Post by Einhorn on May 16, 2023 14:10:32 GMT
I wasn't expecting an intelligent reply and as usual you didn't disappoint. Shouldn't you be locking innocent people up, Squeaky? Who wouldn't have faith in a police force that accepts people like you into its ranks. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 16, 2023 14:23:54 GMT
I wasn't expecting an intelligent reply and as usual you didn't disappoint. Shouldn't you be locking innocent people up, Squeaky? Who wouldn't have faith in a police force that accepts people like you into its ranks. What are you dribbling on about now, my little paper lawyer?
Oh and congrats on your new job btw.  |
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