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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 15, 2023 10:41:29 GMT
And here i thought the purpose of trade is to sell at a profit.. to export. At least on this planet. Free trade works like this.
Say you have two countries A and B. There will be two products that both countries can make and both countries consume. Country A makes product 1 cheaper than Country B and vice versa. Through trade it means that you can have country A make all the product 1 and country B make all product 2, which is cheaper than producing and consuming both. When you impose bilateral tariffs on both products, which is what we often see in practice, you start to introduce a trade-off where some of the products under the old arrangement of doing it the efficient way, the tariffs leverage it so the once cheaper way is more expensive, so it makes the two countries pick the less efficient way of working. Of course tariffs provide a source of tax revenue for the government as well, but this is a bad way of raising taxes as it distorts the market. It's an example of a wider problem with al sorts of stealth taxes, which most people pay for in the cost of the products.
This always happens. Solid reasoning is ignored by the Brits and we carry on in ignorance, making the same mistakes over and over again. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 15, 2023 10:54:36 GMT
I never made such a claim. What I claim is what I've just told you. Kim is Oracle, or Oracle is Kim. The British immigrant living in France who had the personally inconvenience of Britain leaving the EU. But I just rephrased your claim, to wit: You: "The UK economy has a history of lagging behind in recovery.." Me : "Historically the UK economy is comparatively slow to recover.." They mean the same. Or that's the meaning I wanted to convey. What is the issue? You then tried to divert this by asking whether that negated some other "assertion" made by someone who isn't me. |
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Post by oracle75 on May 15, 2023 12:03:23 GMT
But the UK is still at the bottom as others make better progress.
Innit?
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Post by Vinny on May 15, 2023 12:08:23 GMT
Bless.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 15, 2023 12:33:21 GMT
But the UK is still at the bottom as others make better progress. Innit? Look at the financial data and it is apparent what the problem is. It is low productivity. Our industries are backwards. I've been commenting on this for some considerable time. You can see straight away if you compare like for like in different countries. Just as a brief example, take warehousing and how they do it in say the UK, Japan. China, Germany and India. In the rich and high growth countries you would see few people working and you would see vast scale as well. Similar observations can be made in factories. freeze-frame the videos and zoom in to get the make and model number of the machine and then search for past catalogues and find the dates they were produced. Often you can be talking 1950s-60s periods. If you do this research often you will see another pattern. It's the firms going bust which are the worst offenders regarding investment in modern machinery. I saw one on the news - some bullshit about the car market and covid, but the problem was realty unnoticed by the thicko media, parroting away their lines. I mean they were manufacturers of components for cars and I don't see cars going out of fashion, do you? |
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Post by oracle75 on May 15, 2023 12:34:27 GMT
Nonw of the deserate search for non contextual silver bullet wiill make a dimple of a dent on the universally known fact that the economy of the UK is in decline with no light on the horizon, much of the public sector is on strike, the remainimg leavers in government have been either thrown out of office, found to be running the country like a freshers' common room, nearly sank the economy and has made the lives of anyone with a mortgage or loan far worse. And there arent enough hours in the day to discuss the NHS. And what happened to controlling the borders? And who wants to train yo be a nurse or doctor after the fiasco of strikes and shite pay?
The bunch of idiots are now talking about training people how to pick fruit.
While telling young people to go to university. You just couldnt make it up. I assume the brexit voting taxpayer will be paying to train fruit pickers who used to come for free and fully trained.
And you lot sit for hours defining what trade is, desperately trying to turn red to blue if you find some part of a larger text that says what you want it to say.
Like that classic moment when someone said only the Commission can propoose legislation but forgot to read two paragraphs further down which listed three other sources.
Interesting that leavers in here spend all their time defending the damage Brexit has caused but can never show anything that Brexit has improved the country.
You have nothing. Aand a large majority are now admitting buyers regret. At least they are honest.
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Post by oracle75 on May 15, 2023 12:52:10 GMT
But the UK is still at the bottom as others make better progress. Innit? Look at the financial data and it is apparent what the problem is. It is low productivity. Our industries are backwards. I've been commenting on this for some considerable time. You can see straight away if you compare like for like in different countries. Just as a brief example, take warehousing and how they do it in say the UK, Japan. China, Germany and India. In the rich and high growth countries you would see few people working and you would see vast scale as well. Similar observations can be made in factories. freeze-frame the videos and zoom in to get the make and model number of the machine and then search for past catalogues and find the dates they were produced. Often you can be talking 1950s-60s periods. If you do this research often you will see another pattern. It's the firms going bust which are the worst offenders regarding investment in modern machinery. I saw one on the news - some bullshit about the car market and covid, but the problem was realty unnoticed by the thicko media, parroting away their lines. I mean they were manufacturers of components for cars and I don't see cars going out of fashion, do you? The obvious lack of productivity is of course the result of lack of both internal and foreign direct investments plus selling off the means to produce. And the idea that restricting non EU workers as a way to improve productivity, hence national wealth, was incomprehensible, particularly when the public voice said replacements should stay home because they are weakening their own human resources. Serious productivity will only come when outside money builds income generating, taxably bases. Not property that remains empty and contributes nothing to the economy other than making it harder for people to buy an affordable house with less disposable income. There was nothing wrong with the pre Brexit UK. It was respected as a stable economy, honest and law abiding. Today if anyone spares it a thought,0they cough politely and move on. And for all the grasping at straws, you wont change that global impression. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 15, 2023 13:13:10 GMT
Look at the financial data and it is apparent what the problem is. It is low productivity. Our industries are backwards. I've been commenting on this for some considerable time. You can see straight away if you compare like for like in different countries. Just as a brief example, take warehousing and how they do it in say the UK, Japan. China, Germany and India. In the rich and high growth countries you would see few people working and you would see vast scale as well. Similar observations can be made in factories. freeze-frame the videos and zoom in to get the make and model number of the machine and then search for past catalogues and find the dates they were produced. Often you can be talking 1950s-60s periods. If you do this research often you will see another pattern. It's the firms going bust which are the worst offenders regarding investment in modern machinery. I saw one on the news - some bullshit about the car market and covid, but the problem was realty unnoticed by the thicko media, parroting away their lines. I mean they were manufacturers of components for cars and I don't see cars going out of fashion, do you? The obvious lack of productivity is of course the result of lack of both internal and foreign direct investments plus selling off the means to produce. And the idea that restricting non EU workers as a way to improve productivity, hence national wealth, was incomprehensible, particularly when the public voice said replacements should stay home because they are weakening their own human resources. Serious productivity will only come when outside money builds income generating, taxably bases. Not property that remains empty and contributes nothing to the economy other than making it harder for people to buy an affordable house with less disposable income. There was nothing wrong with the pre Brexit UK. It was respected as a stable economy, honest and law abiding. Today if anyone spares it a thought,0they cough politely and move on. And for all the grasping at straws, you wont change that global impression. One pattern I see very often in British industry at the failing end of it is it is like they are in a time warp. You get the strong impression all the different levels of management and worker think they are doing it all properly so find no fault in their own methods, but what is the proper way was possibly the proper way in the 1960s or maybe the 1980s. No one has shown them better ways of doing what they have been doing for decades. There are millions of new industrial processes that are now being used, but the more modern ones are to be found in China and Japan, and I will also credit the Americans here as they too are often seen using modern techniques, and processes that have only been around a few years. I'm constantly picking up on new tricks myself. Even at the simple end like painting and decorating there are tools that really speed up productivity that were simply not thought about 20 years ago. Many of these new things come from far away cultures who think in different ways to our own people.
Now taking all of this on board, back to you point about investment. The law is that the more money someone has for investment the smarter they are, so if you are talking to billionaires, expect them to see every tiniest detail and be the kind who are impossible to bullshit. You show one of these around your factory and they see something they should not, chances are they won't tell you. They will make up their mind on facts you don't know they are using. We have managers who approach these people in the same way as they approach their potential customers. They bullshit them. If you would like a case study to examine I will refer your to Brtishvolt. You may do a search and pull up all available information and do some digging yourself and I think what you will find is incompetence masked by bullshit. The Arab billionaire who was the majority stakeholder withdrew his funding, and now I guess it will be a supermarket or a car park. (British Leyland ended as a supermarket.)
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 16:44:17 GMT
But I just rephrased your claim, to wit: You: "The UK economy has a history of lagging behind in recovery.." Me : "Historically the UK economy is comparatively slow to recover.." They mean the same. Or that's the meaning I wanted to convey. What is the issue? You then tried to divert this by asking whether that negated some other "assertion" made by someone who isn't me. What diversion are you inventing now? The trail of argument goes like this: (a) One poster asserted that the UK's strong performances in 21 & 22 were relative to the large decline in the previous year -- largest among G7 countries, in fact -- and as such were a recovery from that large decline. (b) I agreed with that assertion completely. (c) You then interjected and claimed that historically, the UK was always slow to recover. Your claim was really a non-argument but in any case, we were all talking about the same thing -- the UK economy's performance and its ability to recover. One poster asserted and I agreed that the strong growth in 21 and 22 were a recovery from a very large decline in the previous year. You, on the other hand, said that historically the UK's slow to recover with the clear implication that it was not an issue. So, where's the diversion? |
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Post by Pacifico on May 15, 2023 16:58:36 GMT
And as i said, the slowest this year. As well as when your GDP is low, it is far easier to clock up some growth than when your GDP is operating near its capacity. Look around you at the crumbling quality of life in the UK compared with other major economies, now largely back to pre covid levels. But the IMF GDP forecast for the UK being the slowest growing major economy is just that - a forecast. You just said you don't like PMI surveys because they are forecasts but you seem to like GDP forecasts - rather odd dont you think?  |
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Post by buccaneer on May 15, 2023 18:54:59 GMT
You then tried to divert this by asking whether that negated some other "assertion" made by someone who isn't me. What diversion are you inventing now? The trail of argument goes like this: (a) One poster asserted that the UK's strong performances in 21 & 22 were relative to the large decline in the previous year -- largest among G7 countries, in fact -- and as such were a recovery from that large decline. (b) I agreed with that assertion completely. (c) You then interjected and claimed that historically, the UK was always slow to recover. Your claim was really a non-argument but in any case, we were all talking about the same thing -- the UK economy's performance and its ability to recover. One poster asserted and I agreed that the strong growth in 21 and 22 were a recovery from a very large decline in the previous year. You, on the other hand, said that historically the UK's slow to recover with the clear implication that it was not an issue. So, where's the diversion? I wasn't discussing your "trail". I discussed exactly what I spoke of as my argument refuted your claim that now the UK is out of the EU it is the slowest of the G7 countries to recover - because it's not in the EU. I pointed out this has historically been the case for the UK - a slow recovery after a global down-turn. Even when it was a member of the EU it was slow to recover. What I have said is really that simple. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 19:30:39 GMT
What diversion are you inventing now? The trail of argument goes like this: (a) One poster asserted that the UK's strong performances in 21 & 22 were relative to the large decline in the previous year -- largest among G7 countries, in fact -- and as such were a recovery from that large decline. (b) I agreed with that assertion completely. (c) You then interjected and claimed that historically, the UK was always slow to recover. Your claim was really a non-argument but in any case, we were all talking about the same thing -- the UK economy's performance and its ability to recover. One poster asserted and I agreed that the strong growth in 21 and 22 were a recovery from a very large decline in the previous year. You, on the other hand, said that historically the UK's slow to recover with the clear implication that it was not an issue. So, where's the diversion? I wasn't discussing your "trail". I discussed exactly what I spoke of as my argument refuted your claim that now the UK is out of the EU it is the slowest of the G7 countries to recover - because it's not in the EU. I pointed out this has historically been the case for the UK - a slow recovery after a global down-turn. Even when it was a member of the EU it was slow to recover. What I have said is really that simple. This is ridiculous -- what on earth are you on about now?  Not that I will never consider it as an argument, but in this instance, tell me when I claimed that the UK is the slowest of the G7 countries to recover because it is not in the EU anymore. And tell me exactly what you said to refute this supposed claim of mine. Copy and paste them. Please. We don't want you going round and round being coy and vague about things. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 15, 2023 20:33:46 GMT
I wasn't discussing your "trail". I discussed exactly what I spoke of as my argument refuted your claim that now the UK is out of the EU it is the slowest of the G7 countries to recover - because it's not in the EU. I pointed out this has historically been the case for the UK - a slow recovery after a global down-turn. Even when it was a member of the EU it was slow to recover. What I have said is really that simple. This is ridiculous -- what on earth are you on about now? Not that I will never consider it as an argument, but in this instance, tell me when I claimed that the UK is the slowest of the G7 countries to recover because it is not in the EU anymore. And tell me exactly what you said to refute this supposed claim of mine. Copy and paste them. Please. We don't want you going round and round being coy and vague about things. I've explained myself. It really is that simple. |
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Post by oracle75 on May 15, 2023 20:40:34 GMT
I dont give a shite why the UK is the lame duck in the richest and globally important economies.
They all suffered the same problems.
But the UK is still using it as The Reason for an Excuse.
BOLLOX.
The Britain of Brexit has hobbled the dynamism and confidence in the UK since the hollow promises have not happened and the country seems focussed on racist immigration.it hides the poverty of the state.
And as for the argumemt "we can elect our own leaders""...that is seriously the biggest bellylaugh since Falstaff.
Immigration? What control? The UK isnt sovereign bwcause it has to answer to higher authority.
Why?
Because the western world respects democratically agreed rules based authority. Since 1945.
Otherwise we have chaos.
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Post by buccaneer on May 15, 2023 20:50:58 GMT
I dont give a shite why the UK is the lame duck in the richest and globally important economies. They all suffered the same problems. But the UK is still using it as The Reason for an Excuse. BOLLOX. The Britain of Brexit has hobbled the dynamism and confidence in the UK since the hollow promises have not happened and the country seems focussed on racist immigration.it hides the poverty of the state. And as for the argumemt "we can elect our own leaders""...that is seriously the biggest bellylaugh since Falstaff. Immigration? What control? The UK isnt sovereign bwcause it has to answer to higher authority. Why? Because the western world respects democratically agreed rules based authority. Since 1945. Otherwise we have chaos. Give over Kim. We're not interested in your personal bitterness of Britain's decision to leave the EU merely because you live in France. Your opinion doesn't matter. |
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