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Post by oracle75 on May 15, 2023 0:09:01 GMT
Your chart is a crude and incomplete estimation of a limited number of private manufacturing companies. www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pmi.asp#:~:text=The%20Purchasing%20Managers'%20Index%20(PMI,staying%20the%20same%2C%20or%20contracting. KEY TAKEAWAYS The Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) is a measure of the prevailing direction of economic trends in manufacturing. The PMI is based on a monthly survey of supply chain managers across 19 industries, covering both upstream and downstream activity. Hardly more than a smoke signal. Look. You are not qualified to counter claims from across the country that growth and productivity in the UK is at the bottom of the G7 ...again. www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-economy-shrinks-by-more-than-first-thought-q3-ons-2022-12-22/www.itv.com/news/2023-04-11/uk-on-track-to-be-worst-performing-g7-economy-this-yearI am fed up with desperate attempts to deny the faltering UK economy by finding irrelevant graphs in the vain attempt to use 19 private industries to represent the entire UK economy. The UK economy is a shit show where in work pay over three jobs doesnt pay the bills. Where the government cant pay its workers across the sectors and is refusing to discuss the issues while people needing the NHS wait months for care. The idea that patients cant see their GP unless they win the lucky wheel and managr to get their phone call answered between 8 and 8:10 am is a disgrace. This is the work of a BREXIT GOVERNMENT who promised utopian UK because "it got its sovereignty back". The UK never lost it and worse still, couldnt run a scout camp. The history of Brexit is a tragedy in the playground of governance and no one can show any indication that Brexit has benefitted the country. The only beneficiaries are truck drivers and they only got the raise everyone else wants but didnt have to strike for it because European hauliers' wages went up. When are ideological leavers going to stop beating a dead horse and be honest? Their refusal to admit to what everyone else sees is getting to be a farce. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 15, 2023 0:27:20 GMT
Well as the whole purpose of trade is imports the Treasury view is quite sensible - although I struggle to believe that anything that comes out of the Treasury is sensible. And here i thought the purpose of trade is to sell at a profit.. to export. At least on this planet. Free trade works like this.
Say you have two countries A and B. There will be two products that both countries can make and both countries consume. Country A makes product 1 cheaper than Country B and vice versa. Through trade it means that you can have country A make all the product 1 and country B make all product 2, which is cheaper than producing and consuming both. When you impose bilateral tariffs on both products, which is what we often see in practice, you start to introduce a trade-off where some of the products under the old arrangement of doing it the efficient way, the tariffs leverage it so the once cheaper way is more expensive, so it makes the two countries pick the less efficient way of working. Of course tariffs provide a source of tax revenue for the government as well, but this is a bad way of raising taxes as it distorts the market. It's an example of a wider problem with al sorts of stealth taxes, which most people pay for in the cost of the products.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 6:20:55 GMT
Your chart is a crude and incomplete estimation of a limited number of private manufacturing companies. www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pmi.asp#:~:text=The%20Purchasing%20Managers'%20Index%20(PMI,staying%20the%20same%2C%20or%20contracting. KEY TAKEAWAYS The Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) is a measure of the prevailing direction of economic trends in manufacturing. The PMI is based on a monthly survey of supply chain managers across 19 industries, covering both upstream and downstream activity. Hardly more than a smoke signal. Look. You are not qualified to counter claims from across the country that growth and productivity in the UK is at the bottom of the G7 ...again. www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-economy-shrinks-by-more-than-first-thought-q3-ons-2022-12-22/www.itv.com/news/2023-04-11/uk-on-track-to-be-worst-performing-g7-economy-this-yearI am fed up with desperate attempts to deny the faltering UK economy by finding irrelevant graphs in the vain attempt to use 19 private industries to represent the entire UK economy. The UK economy is a shit show where in work pay over three jobs doesnt pay the bills. Where the government cant pay its workers across the sectors and is refusing to discuss the issues while people needing the NHS wait months for care. The idea that patients cant see their GP unless they win the lucky wheel and managr to get their phone call answered between 8 and 8:10 am is a disgrace. This is the work of a BREXIT GOVERNMENT who promised utopian UK because "it got its sovereignty back". The UK never lost it and worse still, couldnt run a scout camp. The history of Brexit is a tragedy in the playground of governance and no one can show any indication that Brexit has benefitted the country. The only beneficiaries are truck drivers and they only got the raise everyone else wants but didnt have to strike for it because European hauliers' wages went up. When are ideological leavers going to stop beating a dead horse and be honest? Their refusal to admit to what everyone else sees is getting to be a farce.
I see it as a or the stumbling block. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 15, 2023 6:41:30 GMT
KEY TAKEAWAYS The Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) is a measure of the prevailing direction of economic trends in manufacturing. The PMI is based on a monthly survey of supply chain managers across 19 industries, covering both upstream and downstream activity. Hardly more than a smoke signal. Look. You are not qualified to counter claims from across the country that growth and productivity in the UK is at the bottom of the G7 ...again. OK - you dont like PMI surveys as they are a forecast - but it does seem that you like GDP. So the UK was the fastest growing country in the G7 over the past 2 years - how much better did you expect us to be?  |
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Post by oracle75 on May 15, 2023 7:10:56 GMT
And as i said, the slowest this year. As well as when your GDP is low, it is far easier to clock up some growth than when your GDP is operating near its capacity. Look around you at the crumbling quality of life in the UK compared with other major economies, now largely back to pre covid levels. The UK had the largest decline in GDP among the G7 in 2020 (-11.0%) the first year of the pandemic and its relatively strong performances in 2021 (+7.6%) and 2022 (+4.1%) were largely a recovery from the weakness in 2020 and early 2021. commonslibrary.parliament.uk › ... GDP - International Comparisons: Key Economic Indicators Compared to the pre-pandemic level, UK GDP in Q1 2023 was 0.5% lower. This compares with Eurozone GDP being 2.5% higher than its pre-pandemic level, while US GDP was 5.3% higher. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/You are boiling frogs. |
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Post by Vinny on May 15, 2023 7:47:49 GMT
KEY TAKEAWAYS The Purchasing Managers Index (PMI) is a measure of the prevailing direction of economic trends in manufacturing. The PMI is based on a monthly survey of supply chain managers across 19 industries, covering both upstream and downstream activity. Hardly more than a smoke signal. Look. You are not qualified to counter claims from across the country that growth and productivity in the UK is at the bottom of the G7 ...again. OK - you dont like PMI surveys as they are a forecast - but it does seem that you like GDP. So the UK was the fastest growing country in the G7 over the past 2 years - how much better did you expect us to be? Good find, more remoaner lies sunk. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 8:51:08 GMT
And as i said, the slowest this year. As well as when your GDP is low, it is far easier to clock up some growth than when your GDP is operating near its capacity. Look around you at the crumbling quality of life in the UK compared with other major economies, now largely back to pre covid levels. The UK had the largest decline in GDP among the G7 in 2020 (-11.0%) the first year of the pandemic and its relatively strong performances in 2021 (+7.6%) and 2022 (+4.1%) were largely a recovery from the weakness in 2020 and early 2021.commonslibrary.parliament.uk › ... GDP - International Comparisons: Key Economic Indicators Compared to the pre-pandemic level, UK GDP in Q1 2023 was 0.5% lower. This compares with Eurozone GDP being 2.5% higher than its pre-pandemic level, while US GDP was 5.3% higher. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/You are boiling frogs. This ^. But as has been pointed out, some people are boiling frogs. |
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Post by Vinny on May 15, 2023 8:55:04 GMT
In 2022 the UK exported £340 billion worth of goods and services to the EU.
In 2016 the UK exported £235.8 billion worth of goods and services to the EU.
That's an above inflation rise in value.
That means value wise, we're better off out.
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Post by buccaneer on May 15, 2023 9:01:33 GMT
And as i said, the slowest this year. As well as when your GDP is low, it is far easier to clock up some growth than when your GDP is operating near its capacity. Look around you at the crumbling quality of life in the UK compared with other major economies, now largely back to pre covid levels. The UK had the largest decline in GDP among the G7 in 2020 (-11.0%) the first year of the pandemic and its relatively strong performances in 2021 (+7.6%) and 2022 (+4.1%) were largely a recovery from the weakness in 2020 and early 2021.commonslibrary.parliament.uk › ... GDP - International Comparisons: Key Economic Indicators Compared to the pre-pandemic level, UK GDP in Q1 2023 was 0.5% lower. This compares with Eurozone GDP being 2.5% higher than its pre-pandemic level, while US GDP was 5.3% higher. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/You are boiling frogs. This ^. But as has been pointed out, some people are boiling frogs. The only frog boiling is Kim. The UK economy has a history of lagging behind in recovery from serious global downturns - this has happened in the 80's, 90' and it never fully recovered after the GFC as quick as other nations, all while it was a member of the EU. So your 1 + 1 arithmetic of equalling Brexit isn't as simple as that, no matter how much you desperately try and pin something to Brexit without proof. |
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Post by Vinny on May 15, 2023 9:11:11 GMT
We've seen an above inflation rise in the financial value of our trade with the EU since our vote to leave and since our departure.
But, remoaners seem to think our vote to leave left us with no deal.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 9:28:37 GMT
This ^. But as has been pointed out, some people are boiling frogs. The only frog boiling is Kim. The UK economy has a history of lagging behind in recovery from serious global downturns - this has happened in the 80's, 90' and it never fully recovered after the GFC as quick as other nations, all while it was a member of the EU. So your 1 + 1 arithmetic of equalling Brexit isn't as simple as that, no matter how much you desperately try and pin something to Brexit without proof. So, your point is that the UK economy has a history of lagging behind. Fine, so you're effectively admitting that currently, the worst economic performer in G7 countries is the UK. And your excuse for that is history. In any case, you're arguing against a point that nobody is making. As usual. You contend that historically the UK economy is comparatively slow to recover, but does it negate the assertion that "the UK had the largest decline in GDP among the G7 in 2020 (-11.0%) the first year of the pandemic and its relatively strong performances in 2021 (+7.6%) and 2022 (+4.1%) were largely a recovery from the weakness in 2020 and early 2021?" No. BTW, who's Kim? |
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Post by buccaneer on May 15, 2023 9:31:29 GMT
We've seen an above inflation rise in the financial value of our trade with the EU since our vote to leave and since our departure. But, remoaners seem to think our vote to leave left us with no deal. The treasury predicted that exports to the EU may go down as far as 40%. Remainer gammons lapped this up. The OBR predicted that exports to the EU may go down by 15%. Remainer gammons lapped this up. This apocalypse never materialised in reality, the big bang in bringing down Brexit Britain was more like a puff of smoke. The reality is UK exports to the EU are down as low as 2%. Much lower than the claims mentioned by 'project fear', and this is the so-called 'disaster' remainer-gammons now hold to. Exports are down more to non-EU countries, that's where Britain is currently lagging and this is thought to be because of sector-specific issues, not Brexit |
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Post by buccaneer on May 15, 2023 9:33:17 GMT
The only frog boiling is Kim. The UK economy has a history of lagging behind in recovery from serious global downturns - this has happened in the 80's, 90' and it never fully recovered after the GFC as quick as other nations, all while it was a member of the EU. So your 1 + 1 arithmetic of equalling Brexit isn't as simple as that, no matter how much you desperately try and pin something to Brexit without proof. So, your point is that the UK economy has a history of lagging behind. Fine, so you're effectively admitting that currently, the worst economic performer in G7 countries is the UK. And your excuse for that is history. In any case, you're arguing against a point that nobody is making. As usual.
You contend that historically the UK economy is comparatively slow to recover, but does it negate the assertion that "the UK had the largest decline in GDP among the G7 in 2020 (-11.0%) the first year of the pandemic and its relatively strong performances in 2021 (+7.6%) and 2022 (+4.1%) were largely a recovery from the weakness in 2020 and early 2021?" No.BTW, who's Kim? I never made such a claim. What I claim is what I've just told you. Kim is Oracle, or Oracle is Kim. The British immigrant living in France who had the personal inconvenience of Britain leaving the EU. |
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Post by Vinny on May 15, 2023 9:34:17 GMT
The percentage of our exports that the EU takes from us has fallen by 1%, but the value of what we sell it has risen above inflation rather than falling.
I'm sure the fall in the value of the pound against the Euro (which the remoaners shrieked about after our leave vote) helped in that respect.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 10:33:50 GMT
So, your point is that the UK economy has a history of lagging behind. Fine, so you're effectively admitting that currently, the worst economic performer in G7 countries is the UK. And your excuse for that is history. In any case, you're arguing against a point that nobody is making. As usual.
You contend that historically the UK economy is comparatively slow to recover, but does it negate the assertion that "the UK had the largest decline in GDP among the G7 in 2020 (-11.0%) the first year of the pandemic and its relatively strong performances in 2021 (+7.6%) and 2022 (+4.1%) were largely a recovery from the weakness in 2020 and early 2021?" No.BTW, who's Kim? Kim is Oracle, or Oracle is Kim. The British immigrant living in France who had the personally inconvenience of Britain leaving the EU. But I just rephrased your claim, to wit: You: "The UK economy has a history of lagging behind in recovery.." Me : "Historically the UK economy is comparatively slow to recover.." They mean the same. Or that's the meaning I wanted to convey. What is the issue? |
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