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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2023 7:06:55 GMT
IMO, this is about the ideological approach to Brexit, i.e., Brexit fundamentalism. Liz Truss negotiated trade deals not to grow the UK economy but to showcase Global Britain's new found "ability and freedom" to strike trade deals on its own. That is, to show local critics and the world that Britain did not need the EU and its "suffocating" quotas and tariffs to negotiate and agree trade deals. Hence, Australia. And Japan. Excerpts from: www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/government-s-ideological-approach-to-brexit-trade-deals-condemned-by-senior-tory/ar-AA1aYM9L?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7151a9888b004dc59717d16df7a0f84a&ei=7Government’s ‘ideological’ approach to Brexit trade deals condemned by senior Tory
Story by Jon Stone • 1h ago
A former Conservative cabinet minister has criticised the government's "ideological" approach to signing Brexit trade deals.
George Eustice, who served as environment secretary under Boris Johnson, said ministers and officials gave too much away in trade talks without getting much in return.
Mr Eustice ... branded the trade deal with Australia – largely negotiated by Ms Truss – as a failure.
But speaking to the IfG this year he said "......while there was quite a bit of sensitivity for agricultural interests, there was a stronger feeling about the ideological benefits of free trade," he said.
Mr Eustice said he had argued "that we should be seeking a reciprocal trade deal" where "yes, we would give away access, but we would be granted something in return".
Instead, he said, he would "endlessly" come up against "what could best be described as a rather ideological stance, which just held that we should just liberalise".
"Treasury officials were quite strongly of the view that tariffs were protectionist – that we should just scrap them all," he said.
The deals signed by the UK tend to allow overseas farmers to export products to the UK produced at lower cost and to different welfare standards without paying tariffs – which British farmers say will drive them out of business.
The government's own analyses of the deals says their overall economic benefits tend to be extremely small – and that in some cases the will shrink domestic UK industries like farming. However more recently government ministers like Trade Secretary Kemi Badenoch have argued that the government's own calculations do not capture all the benefits of the deals.
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Post by Pacifico on May 10, 2023 7:14:16 GMT
Well as the whole purpose of trade is imports the Treasury view is quite sensible - although I struggle to believe that anything that comes out of the Treasury is sensible.
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Post by oracle75 on May 10, 2023 7:34:23 GMT
Well as the whole purpose of trade is imports the Treasury view is quite sensible - although I struggle to believe that anything that comes out of the Treasury is sensible. And here i thought the purpose of trade is to sell at a profit.. to export. At least on this planet. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 10, 2023 7:47:48 GMT
Well as the whole purpose of trade is imports the Treasury view is quite sensible - although I struggle to believe that anything that comes out of the Treasury is sensible. And here i thought the purpose of trade is to sell at a profit.. to export. At least on this planet. The purpose of trade is to access goods and services at cheaper rates than you can make yourself Well it has been since Adam Smith wrote his book 'The Wealth of Nations'.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2023 7:53:05 GMT
Well as the whole purpose of trade is imports the Treasury view is quite sensible - although I struggle to believe that anything that comes out of the Treasury is sensible. Imports, and exports for that matter, are trade activities, but the purpose of trade is to achieve economic prosperity. Hence, the need for a country to determine whether to liberalise or regulate its trade with rest of the trading world. If it determines that domestic products need to be protected for the sake of the industry and of the economy as a whole without jeopardising its international trade relations, then taking a protectionist stance is very much in order. |
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Post by Vinny on May 10, 2023 10:08:16 GMT
Mutual back scratching is better than economic Darwinism.
Complimentary economies selling each other things that the other does not grow or make (traditional Commonwealth model), rather than rival economies participating in a survival of the fittest fight to the death (the EU's model of trade).
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Post by buccaneer on May 10, 2023 10:10:32 GMT
Well as the whole purpose of trade is imports the Treasury view is quite sensible - although I struggle to believe that anything that comes out of the Treasury is sensible. And here i thought the purpose of trade is to sell at a profit.. to export. At least on this planet. You forget consumers Km, they are the ones who drive trade. But it's funny to see a cultist of deity EU quote an ex-UKIP member. lol Another nothing thread, as per... |
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Post by oracle75 on May 10, 2023 15:55:01 GMT
And here i thought the purpose of trade is to sell at a profit.. to export. At least on this planet. The purpose of trade is to access goods and services at cheaper rates than you can make yourself Well it has been since Adam Smith wrote his book 'The Wealth of Nations'. Oh do put your head on straight . The purpose of trade is to sell at more than it costs to procure. Out of profits you pay for labour, new materials and taxes. Anything left over is put into investment, usually in partnership with banks or share offerings, all which costs interest. How on earth can just buying cheap pay for all the above. You have to SELL it to make a profit. I cant believe i have to explain this. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 10, 2023 17:23:25 GMT
The purpose of trade is to access goods and services at cheaper rates than you can make yourself Well it has been since Adam Smith wrote his book 'The Wealth of Nations'. Oh do put your head on straight . The purpose of trade is to sell at more than it costs to procure. Out of profits you pay for labour, new materials and taxes. Anything left over is put into investment, usually in partnership with banks or share offerings, all which costs interest. How on earth can just buying cheap pay for all the above. You have to SELL it to make a profit. I cant believe i have to explain this. As I said - the purpose of trade is simply to access goods and services at cheaper rates than you can produce yourself. As the vast majority of businesses in the economy do not export the idea that that is the priority is rather laughable. |
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Post by oracle75 on May 10, 2023 18:37:51 GMT
Oh do put your head on straight . The purpose of trade is to sell at more than it costs to procure. Out of profits you pay for labour, new materials and taxes. Anything left over is put into investment, usually in partnership with banks or share offerings, all which costs interest. How on earth can just buying cheap pay for all the above. You have to SELL it to make a profit. I cant believe i have to explain this. As I said - the purpose of trade is simply to access goods and services at cheaper rates than you can produce yourself. As the vast majority of businesses in the economy do not export the idea that that is the priority is rather laughable. So trade is only buying in. 🫣 🫣🫣😵💫😵💫 |
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Post by bancroft on May 10, 2023 19:16:22 GMT
Trade is about arrangements for importing and exporting.
Normally tariffs are not expected yet trade-offs can be arranged if necessary where one product my incur tariffs yet another range does not.
It all depends on the strategy of the two parties.
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Post by oracle75 on May 10, 2023 21:18:58 GMT
Trade is about arrangements for importing and exporting. Normally tariffs are not expected yet trade-offs can be arranged if necessary where one product my incur tariffs yet another range does not. It all depends on the strategy of the two parties. Well your chief economist Pacifico thinks the vast majority of businesses do not export. That enough profit can be made by internal trade. The UK doesnt have to sell to half a billion EU citizens but also 80 other countries. Sales to 67 million Brits is all the UK needs to trade. I suggest he not only read up on how insurance companies work but how international finance and investment works since the largest part of the UK's GDP used to be in financial services. No wonder he voted to leave the EU. He shows such a sparkling understanding of how trade works. Laughable indeed. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 10, 2023 21:34:34 GMT
As I said - the purpose of trade is simply to access goods and services at cheaper rates than you can produce yourself. As the vast majority of businesses in the economy do not export the idea that that is the priority is rather laughable. So trade is only buying in. 🫣 🫣🫣😵💫😵💫 No - as I said, the purpose of trade is to access goods and services at cheaper rates than you can produce yourself. If the UK gets 'X' at cheaper rates then that can free up UK businesses from producing 'X' so that they can produce 'Y' - cheap imports allow the economy to shift production to more efficient spheres. That is why productivity increases - this is the basis of Free Trade. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 10, 2023 21:40:56 GMT
Trade is about arrangements for importing and exporting. Normally tariffs are not expected yet trade-offs can be arranged if necessary where one product my incur tariffs yet another range does not. It all depends on the strategy of the two parties. Well your chief economist Pacifico thinks the vast majority of businesses do not export. That enough profit can be made by internal trade. The UK doesnt have to sell to half a billion EU citizens but also 80 other countries. Sales to 67 million Brits is all the UK needs to trade. I suggest he not only read up on how insurance companies work but how international finance and investment works since the largest part of the UK's GDP used to be in financial services. No wonder he voted to leave the EU. He shows such a sparkling understanding of how trade works. Laughable indeed. Your knowledge of economics certainly is laughable. Total exports of goods and services amounts to 28% of GDP - if you want to believe that exports account for the majority of UK economy then you are totally clueless. |
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Post by oracle75 on May 11, 2023 6:38:22 GMT
The great insurance companies including Lloyds of London began over 200 years ago insuring ships and their cargo. Today every item transported internationally is insured as are the means of transport used. Much of that insurance was through UK companies...products sold by the UK and bought by international companies. It is a large part of what made London the financial centre of the world.
Other services included the sale of stocks and shares listed in the UK stock exchange...a service sold by the UK and bought by the ROW. That is now less often the case.
I am not interested in the internal production and sale of widgets. It pales into insignificance when billions of pounds worth of services are generated in the UK and sold abroad. According to WIKI the service sector accounted for 82% of the UK's GDP during the last 12 months. That includes 8% of financial services.
As for widgets produced in the Uk, domestic consumption has never been higher than 70% which includes imports. Of course this depends on interest rates and the personal wealth of the individual Brit..wages vs.inflation. If the UK depended on imports or home production for domestic consumption it would be a third world economy overnight.
The UK cannot maintain its position as a wealthy economy wothout exporting. This has been the case for thousands of years. It cannot rely on sales to 67 million people when it could sell to billions. Hence the opportunities offered by the EU and this CPTPP even if the UK already TRADES, as in exchange of goods and services for profit, to almost all the current members.
No nation on earth thinks sales to international markets is not a desireable path to growth.
I suggest you open your front door and look at how the real world operates.
Widgets are ancient currency.
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