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Post by Vinny on Apr 30, 2023 10:05:27 GMT
The EU was a declining market before we voted leave. It's share of our exports had fallen from 54% of exports in 2000, to 43% in 2016. www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21If that trend had continued, the EU's share of our exports would have fallen to 38.1875% this year, and by 2030, 33.375% of our exports. At what point, does it get through to even the most devout of cultists, that membership wasn't working, and the cost, £9bn a year post rebate to remain in the customs union of a declining market, wasn't worth it? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2023 12:34:47 GMT
YE 2022 is not comparable with YE 2021. The results will always be skewed and unreliable unless and until you extricate the actual, direct effects of the pandemic on the economy. Can you realistically do that? No. Therefore? - The correct, wise, realistic, and sensible comparison to make is between YE 2022 and the most recent pre-pandemic year, which is YE 2019. Or if pushed, a qualified comparison with YE 2018, etc. The principle is simple -- you compare like with like. That's that way it is. Suck it up. But since you -- judging by your posts -- are neither wise nor sensible nor realistic therefore, your arguments never stand up to scrutiny and so you always end up flat on your face, crying. That's because you would rather find a shaky argument that somehow defends and vindicates your beloved Brexit than seek one that is factual and truthful. Rather than just cherry pick your data to suit your argument. I'd sooner look at the macro effect of growth from 1949 to 2022 in the UK to help demonstrate your point that leaving the EU is the problem to ALL the UK's ills, especially low growth. Let's have a look shall we: www.statista.com/statistics/281734/gdp-growth-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/Oh look, it doesn't seem to support being an EU member is 'sunlit uplands' for the Uk's economy. The UK joined the EU in 1973, by 1974 it had negative growth. Again while in the EU in 1980 it had negative growth; same with 1992 and 2009 - negative growth. All while being a member of the EU. The UK's highest year of growth while being a member of the EU came way back in 1988 when it grew by 5.2% and its never seen such growth since. And now it is forecasted that the UK will eventually return to annual growth rate ~2.2% over the next decade, similar to the average when it was an EU member. Sorry, but the data isn't telling us that being in the EU would turbocharge the UK's economy like you believe. You act as though the EU is the foundation supporting the UK's economy and if it is removed the UK sinks. This clearly isn't the case. You're just a disgruntled poster trying and failing to blame anything you possibly can on Britain's decision to leave the EU. The EU isn't vital to UK economic growth. An important trading partner but not vital enough that it turbo-chargers the UK's economy into 'sunlit uplands', the macroeconomic data tells us differently.  Let's take some excerpts from the "experts" from the same link: www.statista.com/statistics/941233/monthly-gdp-growth-uk/Let's have a look at inflation now, another lie perpetuated by you that one could be forgiven in thinking not only is the UK alone suffering inflation, but it's all the fault of Brexit! Yep, still no sign that Brexit caused inflation *rollseyes* www.statista.com/statistics/306648/inflation-rate-consumer-price-index-cpi-united-kingdom-uk/Still no mention of the bedrock of the UK's economy - the EU - having such an impact on the state of the UK's economy itself. You're clutching at straws Gnomey. So, you don't want to talk about making objective comparisons and would rather look at the macro effect of growth from 1949 to 2022 in the UK??.  I pointed to YE 2019 as an objective exercise. You, on the other hand, are not only using your preferred set of data but you're also choosing a different topic to discuss! So, who's cherry picking here? You. If you really think that the UK would have posted positive overall better growth trading outside the EU Single Market, then you really are too far gone to save from your own Brexit delusions. Don't lecture us on the history of the British economy. Just remind yourself that the EEC/EU rejected us -- twice! -- because (a) we were deemed to be too American-leaning and (b) our economy was not up to their standard. European club membership was so crucial to the success and wealth of the UK such that right wing Tory Margaret Thatcher was practically drooling while selling the idea of trading in a single market. BTW, I am not trying to blame anything on the decision to leave the EU. I am, outright, blaming our continuing economic woes on strict, cultish adherence to Brexit fundamentalism. |
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Post by thomas on Apr 30, 2023 14:52:16 GMT
Is that true what im reading vincent that support for rejoin across the uk is now up at 61% ?
61% would now vote to rejoin the EU, according to Redfield & Wilton's latest Brexit tracker poll.
55% say they would support holding a referendum on rejoining the EU in the next five years.
Remain thought they had won viewing polls. Scottish independence has (yawn) been on the cards according to polls. Neither of which demonstrate what actually counts - and that's a democratic vote. The only reason the polls show that is because now the UK is out of the EU there is no negative press towards an undemocratic EU. All there is now is, remainers falsely feeding the media how great it would have been had the UK remained in the EU and solved all the UK's problems. Although TBF they probably wouldn't have been able to claim & save Sturgeon and her husband's dodgy dealings. buccy , dont once again shoot the messenger. Im only asking the question is the anglo saxon masses changing their minds over brussells? Could you be back in the european union before you can say freedom of movement for a euro?
Has it? what polls are that then buccy? In the run up to the last indy ref, scot indy started around the early 20 % point , and finished around 45 % as we know. Since 2014 , its been slow and steady increases to where it is just now around 49/50 % or therabouts.
I fink you are exaggerating myself buccy.
so what you saying buccy if keef wins and takes tyou back in , you will be satisfied democracy has spoken?
could be buccy. On the flip side of the coin , people want to see action , not empty brexiter excuses.
sturgeons gone now mate.
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 30, 2023 17:05:10 GMT
If you really think that the UK would have posted positive growth trading outside the EU Single Market, then you really are too far gone to save from your own Brexit delusions. But we have posted positive growth - not much I grant you but better than some others in Europe. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2023 18:28:43 GMT
The EU was a declining market before we voted leave. It's share of our exports had fallen from 54% of exports in 2000, to 43% in 2016. www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21If that trend had continued, the EU's share of our exports would have fallen to 38.1875% this year, and by 2030, 33.375% of our exports. At what point, does it get through to even the most devout of cultists, that membership wasn't working, and the cost, £9bn a year post rebate to remain in the customs union of a declining market, wasn't worth it? I am afraid that however you spin the facts, figures and statistics, the European Union as a Single Market remains in Number 1 position in regard to exports from the UK. The most up to date statistics I can find are from the CIA World Factbook, one of the worlds most referenced sources when it comes to facts and figures by country. The 2021 figures show thus ( copied from the CIA World Factbook ) >> United States 13%, Germany 9%, Netherlands 8%, Ireland 7%, Switzerland 6% (2021) As you can see Germany + The Netherland accounts for more exports than goes to the United States, just two EU states, but as we know the EU is a Single Market, and it is by a very long way the most important export market for the United Kingdom. www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/united-kingdom/#economyMost world trade is regional, the biggest export partner of Canada is the United States, the biggest export partners of Australia are in Asia and the Pacific and so on. The EU is much much more than just trade, if the war in Ukraine teaches us anything at all, it has got to be that Europe must co-operate in every field to uphold our principles and values, and to work together for a strong, safe and secure Europe, and to build defences against those who would threaten our way of life - a future Europe MUST work together on defence and security. |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 30, 2023 18:43:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2023 18:53:25 GMT
If you really think that the UK would have posted positive growth trading outside the EU Single Market, then you really are too far gone to save from your own Brexit delusions. But we have posted positive growth - not much I grant you but better than some others in Europe. By positive, I meant better. But thank you for pointing that out. |
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 30, 2023 21:06:56 GMT
Rather than just cherry pick your data to suit your argument. I'd sooner look at the macro effect of growth from 1949 to 2022 in the UK to help demonstrate your point that leaving the EU is the problem to ALL the UK's ills, especially low growth. Let's have a look shall we: www.statista.com/statistics/281734/gdp-growth-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/Oh look, it doesn't seem to support being an EU member is 'sunlit uplands' for the Uk's economy. The UK joined the EU in 1973, by 1974 it had negative growth. Again while in the EU in 1980 it had negative growth; same with 1992 and 2009 - negative growth. All while being a member of the EU. The UK's highest year of growth while being a member of the EU came way back in 1988 when it grew by 5.2% and its never seen such growth since. And now it is forecasted that the UK will eventually return to annual growth rate ~2.2% over the next decade, similar to the average when it was an EU member. Sorry, but the data isn't telling us that being in the EU would turbocharge the UK's economy like you believe. You act as though the EU is the foundation supporting the UK's economy and if it is removed the UK sinks. This clearly isn't the case. You're just a disgruntled poster trying and failing to blame anything you possibly can on Britain's decision to leave the EU. The EU isn't vital to UK economic growth. An important trading partner but not vital enough that it turbo-chargers the UK's economy into 'sunlit uplands', the macroeconomic data tells us differently. Let's take some excerpts from the "experts" from the same link: www.statista.com/statistics/941233/monthly-gdp-growth-uk/Let's have a look at inflation now, another lie perpetuated by you that one could be forgiven in thinking not only is the UK alone suffering inflation, but it's all the fault of Brexit! Yep, still no sign that Brexit caused inflation *rollseyes* www.statista.com/statistics/306648/inflation-rate-consumer-price-index-cpi-united-kingdom-uk/Still no mention of the bedrock of the UK's economy - the EU - having such an impact on the state of the UK's economy itself. You're clutching at straws Gnomey. So, you don't want to talk about making objective comparisons and would rather look at the macro effect of growth from 1949 to 2022 in the UK??. I pointed to YE 2019 as an objective exercise. You, on the other hand, are not only using your preferred set of data but you're also choosing a different topic to discuss! So, who's cherry picking here? You. If you really think that the UK would have posted positive overall better growth trading outside the EU Single Market, then you really are too far gone to save from your own Brexit delusions. Don't lecture us on the history of the British economy. Just remind yourself that the EEC/EU rejected us -- twice! -- because (a) we were deemed to be too American-leaning and (b) our economy was not up to their standard. European club membership was so crucial to the success and wealth of the UK such that right wing Tory Margaret Thatcher was practically drooling while selling the idea of trading in a single market. BTW, I am not trying to blame anything on the decision to leave the EU. I am, outright, blaming our continuing economic woes on strict, cultish adherence to Brexit fundamentalism. Meh, irrelevent. Try speaking to the stats than give us your unbridled cultist opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2023 21:34:39 GMT
So, you don't want to talk about making objective comparisons and would rather look at the macro effect of growth from 1949 to 2022 in the UK??. I pointed to YE 2019 as an objective exercise. You, on the other hand, are not only using your preferred set of data but you're also choosing a different topic to discuss! So, who's cherry picking here? You. If you really think that the UK would have posted positive overall better growth trading outside the EU Single Market, then you really are too far gone to save from your own Brexit delusions. Don't lecture us on the history of the British economy. Just remind yourself that the EEC/EU rejected us -- twice! -- because (a) we were deemed to be too American-leaning and (b) our economy was not up to their standard. European club membership was so crucial to the success and wealth of the UK such that right wing Tory Margaret Thatcher was practically drooling while selling the idea of trading in a single market. BTW, I am not trying to blame anything on the decision to leave the EU. I am, outright, blaming our continuing economic woes on strict, cultish adherence to Brexit fundamentalism. Meh, irrelevent. Try speaking to the stats than give us your unbridled cultist opinion. Oh, irrelevant?? But I was speaking to your entire message including your stats. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 30, 2023 21:51:28 GMT
But we have posted positive growth - not much I grant you but better than some others in Europe. By positive, I meant better. But thank you for pointing that out. Better than what?. Our growth has been better than Germany or Spain - is that good or bad? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2023 22:05:35 GMT
By positive, I meant better. But thank you for pointing that out. Better than what?. Our growth has been better than Germany or Spain - is that good or bad? I refer you to poster Buccaneer's response to my comments about making comparisons. |
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 30, 2023 22:47:56 GMT
Meh, irrelevent. Try speaking to the stats than give us your unbridled cultist opinion. Oh, irrelevant?? But I was speaking to your entire message including your stats. If that's what you call it you failed spectacularly. |
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 30, 2023 22:51:50 GMT
Better than what?. Our growth has been better than Germany or Spain - is that good or bad? I refer you to poster Buccaneer's response to my comments about making comparisons. In other words Gnome cannot bring himself to admit that is good. It's a no-no in the cult handbook of deity EU to acknowledge that a nation whilst outside the EU compared to those inside it has had better growth. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2023 7:39:04 GMT
Oh, irrelevant?? But I was speaking to your entire message including your stats. If that's what you call it you failed spectacularly. Fine. You admit -- in a round about way, of course -- that your previous comments were an irrelevance. That's good enough. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2023 7:46:18 GMT
I refer you to poster Buccaneer's response to my comments about making comparisons. In other words Gnome cannot bring himself to admit that is good. It's a no-no in the cult handbook of deity EU to acknowledge that a nation whilst outside the EU compared to those inside it has had better growth. No. In other words, I'm giving him a chance to check out for himself how you try and fail to cover up and then deflect from your stupid errors. Yeah, yeah. We were in the EEC/EU for over forty years. What, you're comparing the UK's growth pre-1973 with years post-1973 until year 2020? You are, aren't you?? |
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