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Post by Pacifico on Apr 23, 2023 6:42:18 GMT
In fact the UK shot that infamous foot in making immigration into the UK economy far far more difficult. Well it cant be that difficult considering that we now have record levels of immigration since we left the EU..  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2023 10:01:50 GMT
Ultimate sovereignty lies, and has always lied with the Parliament and government of individual member states of the European Union, and ultimate sovereignty remains today with individual member states. Any member state can, if they so wish, LEAVE the European Union.
But whilst they remain members, the EU will continue along the same path which was very clearly set out at the very begining, in 1950, in The Schuman Declaration, which Edward Heath agreed to and signed up to.
Namely: (1) the birth of Europe as a political entity
(2) "Europe will not be made all at once, or according to a single plan. It will be built through concrete achievements which first create a de facto solidarity."
The European Union exists by consent, and we do not "give up" sovereignty, we pool or share sovereignty, the EU is a mutual organisation.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2023 13:28:47 GMT
Brexit Fundamentalists on this forum smugly assert that the EU doesn't do innovation and is so weak at it, implying that they -- the EU -- spend next to nothing on research, development and innovation, but they conveniently forget that the Truss government had to sue the EU in order for the UK to be included in the EU's Horizon Europe and Copernicus programmes.  The UK must not change its food regulations willy nilly or rush-in amendments just to make Brexit fundamentalists feel justified. The sensible and only way to achieve safe standards in food and other bio technologies "for the betterment of the planet" is to put in place rigid, rigorous regulations that demand tests and more tests, studies and more studies which take time. Food tech means they culture animal cells with chemicals and enhancers in test tubes and petri dishes and this Dillon character demands that the UK government lower food standards immediately to accommodate him and his company, or else! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2023 13:43:07 GMT
Ultimate sovereignty lies, and has always lied with the Parliament and government of individual member states of the European Union, and ultimate sovereignty remains today with individual member states. Any member state can, if they so wish, LEAVE the European Union. But whilst they remain members, the EU will continue along the same path which was very clearly set out at the very begining, in 1950, in The Schuman Declaration, which Edward Heath agreed to and signed up to. Namely: (1) the birth of Europe as a political entity (2) "Europe will not be made all at once, or according to a single plan. It will be built through concrete achievements which first create a de facto solidarity." The European Union exists by consent, and we do not "give up" sovereignty, we pool or share sovereignty, the EU is a mutual organisation. Agreed. But the principle of shared sovereignty is something that is beyond the comprehension of Brexit fundamentalists. Maybe some actually get the idea but convince themselves that it can not exist since it goes against the fundamentals of their Brexit project. Set against Brexit, the only concept of sovereignty they understand, accept and are willing to promote is the North Korean kind -- absolute control of everything; outwardly intransigent and uncompromising even in the face of poverty. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Apr 23, 2023 14:42:47 GMT
Bugger me your a southerner, same neck of the woods as Steve K, you poof, lol.
Fack off, you Norvern cahnt.  |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 23, 2023 16:58:16 GMT
Ultimate sovereignty lies, and has always lied with the Parliament and government of individual member states of the European Union, and ultimate sovereignty remains today with individual member states. Any member state can, if they so wish, LEAVE the European Union. But whilst they remain members, the EU will continue along the same path which was very clearly set out at the very begining, in 1950, in The Schuman Declaration, which Edward Heath agreed to and signed up to. Namely: (1) the birth of Europe as a political entity (2) "Europe will not be made all at once, or according to a single plan. It will be built through concrete achievements which first create a de facto solidarity." The European Union exists by consent, and we do not "give up" sovereignty, we pool or share sovereignty, the EU is a mutual organisation. Members of the EU have no sovereignty over immigration, agricultural policy, fisheries policy, trade policy, and the powers of the EU are expanding. Better that we're out. |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 23, 2023 21:24:50 GMT
Ultimate sovereignty lies, and has always lied with the Parliament and government of individual member states of the European Union, and ultimate sovereignty remains today with individual member states. Any member state can, if they so wish, LEAVE the European Union. But whilst they remain members, the EU will continue along the same path which was very clearly set out at the very begining, in 1950, in The Schuman Declaration, which Edward Heath agreed to and signed up to. Namely: (1) the birth of Europe as a political entity (2) "Europe will not be made all at once, or according to a single plan. It will be built through concrete achievements which first create a de facto solidarity." The European Union exists by consent, and we do not "give up" sovereignty, we pool or share sovereignty, the EU is a mutual organisation. Members of the EU have no sovereignty over immigration, agricultural policy, fisheries policy, trade policy, and the powers of the EU are expanding. Better that we're out. So that is why Germany had the right, as anyone else in the EU to set immigration quotas. And why farmers all over the EU have the right to produce whatever suits their land and climate. Abd why since fish move, each country can claim its own quota of fish species and why each EU member can decide what to specialise in and produce in its own country. In other words you know nothing but what Murdoch and the pathetic Brexit liars tell you. And you swallowed it whole. Have you not noticed that they have stopped telling you that five years ago?? |
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 23, 2023 22:32:23 GMT
Members of the EU have no sovereignty over immigration, agricultural policy, fisheries policy, trade policy, and the powers of the EU are expanding. Better that we're out. So that is why Germany had the right, as anyone else in the EU to set immigration quotas. And why farmers all over the EU have the right to produce whatever suits their land and climate. Abd why since fish move, each country can claim its own quota of fish species and why each EU member can decide what to specialise in and produce in its own country. In other words you know nothing but what Murdoch and the pathetic Brexit liars tell you. And you swallowed it whole. Have you not noticed that they have stopped telling you that five years ago?? That's because we're out. We left. Job done. It's over. Yet, some people on the other side just cannot let go. They've become obsessed with the UK's decision. Ho hum |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 25, 2023 6:47:50 GMT
Then why does the UK want to pay to be included in EU programmes like Horizon and the Dublin Agreement? Or the UK asking the EU to be able to use the E7 gates in airports instead of standing in long queues with other third country passport holders.
If the UK is out it should stop cherry picking what it wants to regain when it voted to leave.
The vote was a vote for a change of future political process. An ongoing direction. Unfortunately there was no blueprint for what that might be and no discussion about what the UK would lose. And what it would gain was merely a fantasy, proven by the facts of the sad economic position now "enjoyed" by the "success" of the celebrated vote.
I am just listening to a report that says UK debt is now 100% of GDP. UK productivity must go up, and that is difficult with so high an employment rate. Unfortunately too much of that is the very low level of productivity in the gig economy. Brexit politicians promised high level, high productive economy but that demands national and more importantly, foreign investment. Which is far far less after that vote. So the chance of a recovering economy post "that" vote is greatly reduced.
It is becoming more and more clear that winning "that" vote was a huge mistake because the fundamentals of national success were severely damaged. And these are based on decisions made by OTHER countries. And other countries dont consider "sovereignty" important enough to gamble their money on.
Every time a large company invests elsewhere, the UK's relationship with the EU is a consideration taken into account and is a result of "that" vote.
What you celebrate is a huge ball and chain that other economies avoid.
And what is now requiring the UK to beg the EU to be allowed back into what was lost because of that vote.
I see no benefits of that vote and no reason to celebrate the outcome.
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 25, 2023 7:03:05 GMT
Then why does the UK want to pay to be included in EU programmes like Horizon and the Dublin Agreement? Or the UK asking the EU to be able to use the E7 gates in airports instead of standing in long queues with other third country passport holders. If the UK is out it should stop cherry picking what it wants to regain when it voted to leave. The vote was a vote for a change of future political process. An ongoing direction. Unfortunately there was no blueprint for what that might be and no discussion about what the UK would lose. And what it would gain was merely a fantasy, proven by the facts of the sad economic position now "enjoyed" by the "success" of the celebrated vote. I am just listening to a report that says UK debt is now 100% of GDP. UK productivity must go up, and that is difficult with so high an employment rate. Unfortunately too much of that is the very low level of productivity in the gig economy. Brexit politicians promised high level, high productive economy but that demands national and more importantly, foreign investment. Which is far far less after that vote. So the chance of a recovering economy post "that" vote is greatly reduced. It is becoming more and more clear that winning "that" vote was a huge mistake because the fundamentals of national success were severely damaged. And these are based on decisions made by OTHER countries. And other countries dont consider "sovereignty" important enough to gamble their money on. Every time a large company invests elsewhere, the UK's relationship with the EU is a consideration taken into account and is a result of "that" vote. What you celebrate is a huge ball and chain that other economies avoid. And what is now requiring the UK to beg the EU to be allowed back into what was lost because of that vote. I see no benefits of that vote and no reason to celebrate the outcome.Of course you don't. You are a British citizen living in France. You want your personal interests met for your own reasons, not for anyone else. |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 25, 2023 11:14:16 GMT
Then why does the UK want to pay to be included in EU programmes like Horizon and the Dublin Agreement? Or the UK asking the EU to be able to use the E7 gates in airports instead of standing in long queues with other third country passport holders. If the UK is out it should stop cherry picking what it wants to regain when it voted to leave. The vote was a vote for a change of future political process. An ongoing direction. Unfortunately there was no blueprint for what that might be and no discussion about what the UK would lose. And what it would gain was merely a fantasy, proven by the facts of the sad economic position now "enjoyed" by the "success" of the celebrated vote. I am just listening to a report that says UK debt is now 100% of GDP. UK productivity must go up, and that is difficult with so high an employment rate. Unfortunately too much of that is the very low level of productivity in the gig economy. Brexit politicians promised high level, high productive economy but that demands national and more importantly, foreign investment. Which is far far less after that vote. So the chance of a recovering economy post "that" vote is greatly reduced. It is becoming more and more clear that winning "that" vote was a huge mistake because the fundamentals of national success were severely damaged. And these are based on decisions made by OTHER countries. And other countries dont consider "sovereignty" important enough to gamble their money on. Every time a large company invests elsewhere, the UK's relationship with the EU is a consideration taken into account and is a result of "that" vote. What you celebrate is a huge ball and chain that other economies avoid. And what is now requiring the UK to beg the EU to be allowed back into what was lost because of that vote. I see no benefits of that vote and no reason to celebrate the outcome.Of course you don't. You are a British citizen living in France. You want your personal interests met for your own reasons, not for anyone else. Did you understand anything of what I wrote or is all you are capable of is an irrelevant personal guess. Nno one who supported Brexit ever thought of or diiscussed or realised that a country's economic welfare depends on decisions made ELSEWHERE. You can have all the trade deals in the woeld. If companies elsewhere arent impressed with your political or economic position, not only will they choose to trade elsewhere but look to put serious money into stable well connected countries. Which the Brexit vote destroyed. What you dont yndersttan is that winning the battle does not mean you have won the war. In the UK's case, it has actually prevented the UK from getting out of the trenches. |
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 25, 2023 12:16:55 GMT
Of course you don't. You are a British citizen living in France. You want your personal interests met for your own reasons, not for anyone else. Did you understand anything of what I wrote or is all you are capable of is an irrelevant personal guess. Nno one who supported Brexit ever thought of or diiscussed or realised that a country's economic welfare depends on decisions made ELSEWHERE. You can have all the trade deals in the woeld. If companies elsewhere arent impressed with your political or economic position, not only will they choose to trade elsewhere but look to put serious money into stable well connected countries. Which the Brexit vote destroyed. What you dont yndersttan is that winning the battle does not mean you have won the war. In the UK's case, it has actually prevented the UK from getting out of the trenches. That's only your opinion. Doesn't make it true. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2023 13:12:57 GMT
Of course you don't. You are a British citizen living in France. You want your personal interests met for your own reasons, not for anyone else. ...all you are capable of is an irrelevant personal guess. Nno one who supported Brexit ever thought of or diiscussed or realised that a country's economic welfare depends on decisions made ELSEWHERE. You can have all the trade deals in the woeld. If companies elsewhere arent impressed with your political or economic position, not only will they choose to trade elsewhere but look to put serious money into stable well connected countries. Which the Brexit vote destroyed. What you dont yndersttan is that winning the battle does not mean you have won the war. In the UK's case, it has actually prevented the UK from getting out of the trenches. Sorry for the edit but I am in complete agreement. Unfortunately for Brexit fundamentalists, a Pyrrhic victory is, nonetheless, a victory. It gives them succor and the sorriest thing is that they try to convince the rest to follow their mentality. |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 25, 2023 13:29:59 GMT
Did you understand anything of what I wrote or is all you are capable of is an irrelevant personal guess. Nno one who supported Brexit ever thought of or diiscussed or realised that a country's economic welfare depends on decisions made ELSEWHERE. You can have all the trade deals in the woeld. If companies elsewhere arent impressed with your political or economic position, not only will they choose to trade elsewhere but look to put serious money into stable well connected countries. Which the Brexit vote destroyed. What you dont yndersttan is that winning the battle does not mean you have won the war. In the UK's case, it has actually prevented the UK from getting out of the trenches. That's only your opinion. Doesn't make it true. No it is not an opinion. It is the way the world works. That is might be a wider perspective than your constant squabbling and adolwscent name calling and silly insults does not make it an opinion. It is happening. The foreign direct investment into the UK dropped nearly 90% just after June 2016. Except for the very few important FDI's since, there has been a lot of international investment into other EU countries, some discussed here. More often you see UK companies either selling out to or moving to other places. This has to stop if there is any hope of growth in the economy but the longer this Brexit government plays silly buggers and cant find a direction, the more time other countries have to attract investment. And there is a lot of it going on in this very important change of energy and transport production. So while you stand on your 6 year old hill of sand pointing fingers the ROW is getting on with making sure it doesnt get washed out to sea. |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 25, 2023 13:38:06 GMT
...all you are capable of is an irrelevant personal guess. Nno one who supported Brexit ever thought of or diiscussed or realised that a country's economic welfare depends on decisions made ELSEWHERE. You can have all the trade deals in the woeld. If companies elsewhere arent impressed with your political or economic position, not only will they choose to trade elsewhere but look to put serious money into stable well connected countries. Which the Brexit vote destroyed. What you dont yndersttan is that winning the battle does not mean you have won the war. In the UK's case, it has actually prevented the UK from getting out of the trenches. Sorry for the edit but I am in complete agreement. Unfortunately for Brexit fundamentalists, a Pyrrhic victory is, nonetheless, a victory. It gives them succor and the sorriest thing is that they try to convince the rest to follow their mentality. I dont see anyone following the UK's mentality, contrary to the ignorant assumption that they would and that the UK would wage war with the EU and be crowned as giant killers via a revolution of members. In fact they are sad but horrified at the prospect. The EU never needed the UK more than the UK needed the EU. It was again part of the package of lies leavers loved to quote, based on the right wing press feeding pithy quotable headlines and false information. None of it has materialised, and neither can it because it was all smoke and mirrors. And what is left is an empty stage. |
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