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Post by johnofgwent on Apr 22, 2023 9:19:11 GMT
Indeed. A lot of the framework for this unaccountable alter government was apparently set up in the New Labour years, which is why every government since New Labour has been (more or less) another Blair administration (despite their manifestos). It was vital that this nonsense was decommissioned as a matter of urgency, but instead the conservatives gave us David Cameron (ie a managerial nobody cast in the image of Blair). I think it probably down to a dysfunctional, incompetent government that attempts to 'do' things that are either illegal or immoral. The civil service is being accused of 'mutiny' and again we have the language of pre war Germany. Five minutes pausing to think about the Civil Service antics 2016-2019 will show you mutiny is probably an excellent word to use. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Apr 22, 2023 9:20:58 GMT
It's nothing short of mutiny, the civil service having a different agenda to that of the serving government, and the will of the people it serves. They've gone rogue, and are a unelected bureaucrats and implementing their own policies, and to rub salt into the wound 'us' the tax payers are paying their salaries. You don't know what the individual cases entailed, so you are making a mutiny out of a molehill. You'd have to be more than naive not work out that every minister in charge of certain Civil Service departments are accused of 'bullying' Priti Patel she was accused of bulling, along with Gavin Williamson, don't you think it's strange that these ministers are only accused of bulling when they enter in to a civil service role, or would you have us believe that they only turn in to bullies once they take over these roles, none of these ministers prior to taking on the role have been accused of being bullies. |
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Post by Orac on Apr 22, 2023 9:23:55 GMT
Indeed. A lot of the framework for this unaccountable alter government was apparently set up in the New Labour years, which is why every government since New Labour has been (more or less) another Blair administration (despite their manifestos). It was vital that this nonsense was decommissioned as a matter of urgency, but instead the conservatives gave us David Cameron (ie a managerial nobody cast in the image of Blair). I think it probably down to a dysfunctional, incompetent government that attempts to 'do' things that are either illegal or immoral. Your model seems to be that the civil service should have operational authority over elected government - which chimes perfectly with how we are characterising this situation |
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Post by Orac on Apr 22, 2023 9:28:06 GMT
A second, tax payer funded government has been set up with more or less zero public accountability.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2023 9:32:26 GMT
One of the most amazing things i saw in the scrum to replace May the Remainer was Raab’s propsal to ditch VAT Had i been a Tory party member that alone would have made me vote for him VAT is an EU invention that fucks the low paid far more than any other group. Prior to being dragged into the EEC we had Purchase Tax on LUXURY goods and no sales tax at all on essentials. Furthermore, only retailers of such goods had to account for this tax. Manufacturers were able to totally ignore itvas it eas a point of sale to the public tax VAT is a monster worthy of the shitshow that wastes hundreds of millions trucking paperwork between Brussels and Strasbourg to placate the French. On 1 January 1973 the UK joined the European Economic Community and as a consequence Purchase Tax was replaced by Value Added Tax on 1 April 1973. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2023 9:33:23 GMT
I think it probably down to a dysfunctional, incompetent government that attempts to 'do' things that are either illegal or immoral. The civil service is being accused of 'mutiny' and again we have the language of pre war Germany. Five minutes pausing to think about the Civil Service antics 2016-2019 will show you mutiny is probably an excellent word to use. Can you name one think that could remotely be called mutinous? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2023 9:35:13 GMT
You don't know what the individual cases entailed, so you are making a mutiny out of a molehill. You'd have to be more than naive not work out that every minister in charge of certain Civil Service departments are accused of 'bullying' Priti Patel she was accused of bulling, along with Gavin Williamson, don't you think it's strange that these ministers are only accused of bulling when they enter in to a civil service role, or would you have us believe that they only turn in to bullies once they take over these roles, none of these ministers prior to taking on the role have been accused of being bullies. Not at all, at all, they see civil service 'minions' as easy picking and thing a few choice words will go unnoticed but the civil service are fighting back. |
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Post by jonksy on Apr 22, 2023 9:37:02 GMT
You'd have to be more than naive not work out that every minister in charge of certain Civil Service departments are accused of 'bullying' Priti Patel she was accused of bulling, along with Gavin Williamson, don't you think it's strange that these ministers are only accused of bulling when they enter in to a civil service role, or would you have us believe that they only turn in to bullies once they take over these roles, none of these ministers prior to taking on the role have been accused of being bullies. Not at all, at all, they see civil service 'minions' as easy picking and thing a few choice words will go unnoticed but the civil service are fighting back. How are they fighting back? Half the arseholes are wfh dead nag. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2023 9:38:32 GMT
I think it probably down to a dysfunctional, incompetent government that attempts to 'do' things that are either illegal or immoral. Your model seems to be that the civil service should have operational authority over elected government - which chimes perfectly with how we are characterising this situation You could just of easily said "your model is that we need a competent government" but you had to go with a 'mutinous' civil service instead. Victim blaming is core to the right wing. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2023 9:39:01 GMT
Not at all, at all, they see civil service 'minions' as easy picking and thing a few choice words will go unnoticed but the civil service are fighting back. How are they fighting back? Half the arseholes are wfh dead nag. xftuyiomgh;g,chattweif8o8f. |
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Post by Orac on Apr 22, 2023 9:45:21 GMT
You'd have to be more than naive not work out that every minister in charge of certain Civil Service departments are accused of 'bullying' Priti Patel she was accused of bulling, along with Gavin Williamson, don't you think it's strange that these ministers are only accused of bulling when they enter in to a civil service role, or would you have us believe that they only turn in to bullies once they take over these roles, none of these ministers prior to taking on the role have been accused of being bullies. Not at all, at all, they see civil service 'minions' as easy picking and thing a few choice words will go unnoticed but the civil service are fighting back. I can't imagine on what moral authority you feel they have a right to use their tax payer funded positions to 'fight' with the bosses assigned to them by the taxpayer |
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 22, 2023 9:47:26 GMT
I have come across some real bullies in my life which have been all about portrayed image, he certainly doesn't come close. So some bullying is acceptable? Being abrasive and a bully are two different things. The reports conclusions find: In other words, they were snowflakes who didn't take kindly to his abrasive criticism. That is not bullying. |
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Post by jonksy on Apr 22, 2023 9:48:12 GMT
How are they fighting back? Half the arseholes are wfh dead nag. xftuyiomgh;g,chattweif8o8f. ? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 22, 2023 9:55:15 GMT
Even to the most outraged of lefties it must be pretty obvious that centre right pro Brexit Raab was hounded out by left wing Home Office activists and I have to say, Sunak has gone down in my estimation as well. This sets a dangerous precedent, who decides who should become a minister of state, the prime minister or the notoriously left wing civil service? A rhetorical question, it would seem.
I listened to Mathew Parris earlier who summed it up quite nicely, he said he has never liked Dominic Raab, but the way he has been hounded out by civil servants is just wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2023 10:01:59 GMT
xftuyiomgh;g,chattweif8o8f. Excellent, your most sensible post on the forum. Do we have a "post of the week", section? |
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