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Post by Ripley on Apr 25, 2023 15:21:59 GMT
Sadly, that's a rather typical attitude of English speakers towards foreign language acquisition. You assume you will never have a use for another language, but language is a sort of currency. Acquiring foreign language is always beneficial. It's the attitude of this particular Englishman. If as you say language is a currency, then being the practical person I am, I will not need to use a language that is about as much use as a peseta. And thank you for putting words into my mouth about your assumption of me never needing use for another language. Though you couldn't be wider of the mark even if you tried. I was specific in discussing the Scottish language. Whether the choice is based on need or just interest, it is of course entirely up to you whether or not to acquire the Scots language, or any language. I feel that being a native speaker of English today is incredibly fortunate. I would hate to have had to learn it as a foreign language. But I have come across quite a few English speakers, (and by that I don't mean English people in particular), who feel that English makes other languages unnecessary. I just think that is a short sighted approach.
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Post by Ripley on Apr 25, 2023 15:29:09 GMT
Where did I ever say anyone is working against the Welsh? What anti-English views? Who are these SNP 'chums'? When have I ever suggested erasing any language, far less English? If you bothered to read my earlier posts on this thread you would see my position on the English language. I favour the preservation of languages, even minority languages. I would never advocate erasing any language. That is a moronic proposition. As you can see from the thread , you only need to mention cymraeg or gaidhlig and it severely triggers a certain part of the yookay population into fits of pique and accusations of anti englishness.
You last sentence is fitting for the thread , as a moron is welsh for a carrot im told.
It is quite baffling to see how a discussion of minority languages elicits such an odd response. English is a dynamic, resilient, highly successful language. It's ludicrous to perceive the revival of Welsh place names as any kind of threat to the dominance of the English language. Where does that come from?
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Post by walterpaisley on Apr 25, 2023 18:05:20 GMT
I'm in Cardiff overnight.
Just about to set off and meet people at the Rummer Tavern - which I'm told is pretty old, and I guess isn't in line to get renamed anytime soon..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2023 20:02:36 GMT
As you can see from the thread , you only need to mention cymraeg or gaidhlig and it severely triggers a certain part of the yookay population into fits of pique and accusations of anti englishness.
You last sentence is fitting for the thread , as a moron is welsh for a carrot im told.
It is quite baffling to see how a discussion of minority languages elicits such an odd response. English is a dynamic, resilient, highly successful language. It's ludicrous to perceive the revival of Welsh place names as any kind of threat to the dominance of the English language. Where does that come from? It could be your dishonesty, considering nobody made this claim other than you. All I disagree with is the intentional hostile agenda behind it, which the anti-English Scotnat and his troll supports.
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Post by Ripley on Apr 25, 2023 20:44:30 GMT
It is quite baffling to see how a discussion of minority languages elicits such an odd response. English is a dynamic, resilient, highly successful language. It's ludicrous to perceive the revival of Welsh place names as any kind of threat to the dominance of the English language. Where does that come from? It could be your dishonesty, considering nobody made this claim other than you. All I disagree with is the intentional hostile agenda behind it, which the anti-English Scotnat and his troll supports. What an ugly thing to say. You have called me hypocritical and dishonest because you disagree with my views on this topic. I am neither. If you’re referring to what I said about perceiving the revival of Welsh names as a threat to the English language, that’s how I read your post describing my support of the OP as “batting for those who wants (sic) to see a language slowly erased out of bitterness” and your references to “promoting anti-English politics” and “the intentional hostile agenda” that you imagine. It certainly seems that you perceive some threat to the English language, which I have assured you is non-existent. I have no further interest in this line of argument.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2023 20:52:48 GMT
Yes I did, and yes I am disagreeing with your views and I explained my reasons for doing so earlier. Here I am pointing out the elephant in the room and all you're doing is making up wild claims that other people feel threatened, which is hypocritical of you when the motivation is anti-English. I don't want the knuckle dragging bigotry that we see from your ScotNat mates, who just want to stir up hostility and further bullshit.
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Post by Ripley on Apr 25, 2023 21:49:01 GMT
Yes I did, and yes I am disagreeing with your views and I explained my reasons for doing so earlier. Here I am pointing out the elephant in the room and all you're doing is making up wild claims that other people feel threatened, which is hypocritical of you when the motivation is anti-English. I don't want the knuckle dragging bigotry that we see from your ScotNat mates, who just want to stir up hostility and further bullshit. All right. Let me try to clarify. I am commenting on the issue of the revival of Welsh names in Wales and only on that issue. For some quite bewildering reason you seem to attribute an anti-English motivation to the discussion. If by anti-English you mean anti-English people, why would you think that? This is not a political discussion. It is purely a language issue. If by anti-English you mean anti-English language, I see no evidence or suggestion that any poster favours the eradication of the English language. I certainly don't, and I don't think it's even a remote possibility in our lifetimes.
Why all the references to ScotNats when this is not a discussion about Scottish nationalism? Do you think that only people of your political persuasion should speak about this topic?
Why do you keep referring to my "ScotNat mates" and "SNP chums"? For the record, I know no SNP people and have no SNP chums. I know as much about these posters as I know about you, which is next to nothing at all.
Lastly, I am not suggesting that people feel personally threatened, but that you seem to feel that the English language is somehow threatened by the revival of some Welsh place names. It is not. As I have said before, English is dynamic, robust and strong, and no minority languages threaten its dominance. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.
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Post by johnofgwent on Apr 26, 2023 6:47:50 GMT
I question your assumption that supporting the preservation of Welsh language in Wales amounts to anti-English bias. Honestly, I don't see how you reached that conclusion. I openly favour the preservation of minority languages, not only Welsh. What is hypocritical about that? And how does that make me anti-English? Nobody is working against the Welsh. It's a fantasy you've made up to promote your anti-English views, which are shared with your SNP chums. Wales is in the UK, we have a common language, it has worked this way for centuries. Nobody other than you and your SNP chums have even suggested erasing a language. Then you need to pay attention to what us said in Welsh at fringe meetings of tbe Cottage Burners Appreciation Society As i have mentioned on this forum and elsewhere, my knowledge of French has come in handy when dealing with the French. My former Diving instructors first task when taking up an offer to work in Egypt was to speed-learn Arabic. My uncle who worked for the Saudi Merchant Navy took it upon himself to do the same but also learned Spanish to the same degree, firstly because there were for some crazy reason loads of spanish speaking deckhands in the fleet, but secondly because he bought property in ‘El Capistrano’ the very first widely advertised Spanish holiday and retirement resort purpose built as such. I have never understood the mentality of those who work or retire to another country yet fail to take the time to learn the language of the natives. If nothing else hiw the fuck do you know when the plumber is ripping you off. Towards the end of a contract with a French Defence outfit at the very start of my career, the guy who led our team at Ferranti, a polymath, had spent months living in France and was imo justifiably proud of the fact his command of the French language exceeded my own gained in years of occasional practice over there and everyday use here with French students at Uni. We had tended to keep this ability quiet and used it to our great advantage when the arrogant bastards dissed us and the project in front of us thinking we couldn’t understand them. After the jib was done at a huge, huge profit to us, Jeff lead the final project meeting. He uttered not a word in English throughout. The others in the room from our crew were at least as fluent as I and we followed his lead. For 45 minutes barely a word of English was heard. The faces of the French engineers were a picture as it suddenly dawned on them every one of us understood every word they had conspiratorially whispered over the past 18 months ……. To come back to Welsh though, i recall in Uni some twat bewailed the lack of prominence of the Welsh language in Cardiff and demanded English be eradicated from the University meetings. He wasn’t remotely happy to hear me say - in Welsh - i saw no reason to allow the descendants of the weaklings my ancestors vanquished and only through their mercy chose not to exterminate to have any such say over the actions of us, the descendants of their conquerors, and - and now i switched to French - the business should therefore be conducted in French, or maybe Old Norse. As a young child, my maternal grandmother who spoke to me in Welsh because it was her first language, ensured i spoke and wrote it. By the end of my primary school year i was fluent as any Lleyn Peninsula peasant of a year or two my junior. In Secondary School the asshole teaching the subject focussed entirely on those children who spoke it 100% at home, largely ignoring any others and throwing substitutions of letters fir different cases at us without explanation knowing we would rapidly fall in achievement scores with his incessant fail markings and would predictably leave fluency in the language to his little clique. In those days it only really mattered if you were buying a pint in a Ceredigion pub, as the landlord only charged the advertised prices to those ordering in english. Nowadays that attitude is far more prevalent. In 1997 Swalec were told to produce bills bilingually for those demanding them in English, and Welsh Only for those demanding them in Welsh. That’s the Welsh Language Society’s aim. Eradication.
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Post by thomas on Apr 26, 2023 7:07:33 GMT
As you can see from the thread , you only need to mention cymraeg or gaidhlig and it severely triggers a certain part of the yookay population into fits of pique and accusations of anti englishness.
You last sentence is fitting for the thread , as a moron is welsh for a carrot im told.
It is quite baffling to see how a discussion of minority languages elicits such an odd response. English is a dynamic, resilient, highly successful language. It's ludicrous to perceive the revival of Welsh place names as any kind of threat to the dominance of the English language. Where does that come from? Where does that come from?
How very dare the welsh use their own language and placenames in their own country. What possible use will these rustics be to king and empire speaking in their heathen backward gibberish , not to mention how it highly damages the fantasy britain is a country made up of a homogenous people who are all really just englishmen that we have created for the simpletons to believe in .
Sarcasm aside many a truth is said in jest.
I mind a wee irish guy saying something along the lines of if the british culture is so terrified of minority languages like welsh or gaidhlig , then it shows how fragile it is and how it has been built on foundations of quicksand.
Getting back to placenames there are welsh placenames across southern scotland. Indeed the oldest literature in the welsh language comes from south east scotland written in the 7th century. With the eye of faith , welsh placenames can be found all over what is now england.
I go back to my original point if you see yourself as british , then surely you would be celebrating the multi cultural multi linguistic nature of britishness instead of stamping all over the native languages and cultures and forcing englishness down everyones throats.
That in itself part explains why the uk is a failed state, that was held together for a few centuries uneasily , broke apart a century ago , and has been falling apart ever since.
If we cant live together in peace and harmony , respecting each other and our countires and cultures , then we will fight like rats in a sack till the bag splits apart.
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Post by thomas on Apr 26, 2023 7:12:47 GMT
Nobody is working against the Welsh. It's a fantasy you've made up to promote your anti-English views, which are shared with your SNP chums. Wales is in the UK, we have a common language, it has worked this way for centuries. Nobody other than you and your SNP chums have even suggested erasing a language. That’s the Welsh Language Society’s aim. Eradication. dont agree with you at all unsurprisingly. ...but then what would one expect from you when you are an unrepentant british nationalist .
Welsh is of course no threat to english. The wlesh have their language policy almost perfect , whilst both the scottish and even the independent irish havent with their pathetic lip service to the native languages.
Welsh is given meaning by the fact it is required for work , used as a community language and continues to be transfered from parent to child each geneeration. It appears after a century or more of weakness to be back in a healthy place.
In scotland and ireland , gaelic is taught as a second language the way you would teach french or german , and then promptly forgotten about by schooleavers . Very few places continue to use gaelic as a community every day language.
We in scotland and ireland have much to learn from the fantastic work the welsh do.
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Post by thomas on Apr 26, 2023 7:16:57 GMT
It could be your dishonesty, considering nobody made this claim other than you. All I disagree with is the intentional hostile agenda behind it, which the anti-English Scotnat and his troll supports. What an ugly thing to say. You have called me hypocritical and dishonest because you disagree with my views on this topic. I am neither. If you’re referring to what I said about perceiving the revival of Welsh names as a threat to the English language, that’s how I read your post describing my support of the OP as “batting for those who wants (sic) to see a language slowly erased out of bitterness” and your references to “promoting anti-English politics” and “the intentional hostile agenda” that you imagine. It certainly seems that you perceive some threat to the English language, which I have assured you is non-existent. I have no further interest in this line of argument. intentional hostile agenda to england and english?
B4 is the type who runs screaming out of tesco becuase he hears marzena talking to piotr on the tills in polish......coming over here .........speaking their language and eating our swans.
Honestly ripley , he isnt even worth a comment . Trolling threads without a fucking clue what he is talking about.
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Post by sheepy on Apr 26, 2023 7:21:31 GMT
Well on the Brightside soon they will need them translated in several languages not just Welsh and English, oh but wait that means it has actually gone on for decades anyway.
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Post by walterpaisley on Apr 26, 2023 7:41:55 GMT
I've just had what's described by the hotel as a "Full Welsh Breakfast". It's exactly the same as a "Full English Breakfast" (and it was very good..), except there's an option for a Welsh Cake and my table has daffodils on it.
Has it just been renamed for the hell of it?
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Post by Ripley on Apr 26, 2023 14:53:04 GMT
I've just had what's described by the hotel as a "Full Welsh Breakfast". It's exactly the same as a "Full English Breakfast" (and it was very good..), except there's an option for a Welsh Cake and my table has daffodils on it. Has it just been renamed for the hell of it? I have no idea, but Welsh cake and daffodils sound like a delightful riff on the Full English theme to me. You're in Wales, so your breakfast is Welsh. If you were in Scotland they'd call it a Full Scottish breakfast and throw in some sliced haggis and tattie scones. Regional references are to be expected.
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Post by johnofgwent on Apr 26, 2023 20:35:38 GMT
That’s the Welsh Language Society’s aim. Eradication. dont agree with you at all unsurprisingly. ...but then what would one expect from you when you are an unrepentant british nationalist .
Welsh is of course no threat to english. The wlesh have their language policy almost perfect , whilst both the scottish and even the independent irish havent with their pathetic lip service to the native languages.
Welsh is given meaning by the fact it is required for work , used as a community language and continues to be transfered from parent to child each geneeration. It appears after a century or more of weakness to be back in a healthy place.
In scotland and ireland , gaelic is taught as a second language the way you would teach french or german , and then promptly forgotten about by schooleavers . Very few places continue to use gaelic as a community every day language.
We in scotland and ireland have much to learn from the fantastic work the welsh do.
it is only required for work at pjaces where the cottage burners decree it. This bullshit was started back in the late 80s when a bunch of language extremists in cahoots with the bastard who bred labradors to carry explosives to kill british troops (Cayo ??) advertised for staff in Swansea ‘english only speakers need not apply’ and when taken to a tribunal offered the defence that their prejudice was justified on the grounds the directors refused to issue instructions except in the welsh language and therefore anyone not fluent would not understand the job. And the fucking courts allowed tbese racist cunts their way.
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