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Post by johnofgwent on Apr 20, 2023 16:40:28 GMT
It seems a lot of fuss over a motor home that Wee Krankie can't even drive, but I would have thought that the real question is how many SNP supporters will transfer their votes to Alba or will they recognise their true loyalty and vote for Anas Sarwar ?
i don’t know the numbers but at what point does a drop in votes for them in favour of another nationalist party start to manifest as lost seats ?? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 20, 2023 16:54:25 GMT
What do you mean only a catholic red? I dont practice religion mate, but i was christened church of scotland protestant as a child. My mum was a catholic , and dad church of scotland . So if you are referring to me red , you are making wrong assumption. The DUP who we were talking about ( to pacifico) are a minority party. They dont speak for unionism , and got a mere 21 % of the last stormont vote on a 64 % turnout. Other Unionist parties cant stand them. Unionism lost their majority of stormont for the first time in a century in 2017 , and the biggest growing group in northern ireland is "other" neither orange or green , who are open either way to reunification , but more importantly in a majority are extremely pro european. Wether you like it or not , northern ireland is part of the european union , with european courts , and both the british prime minister and your president biden as well as the EU support the windsor framework. Neither the anglo tory party government , the majority of the political parties in northern ireland , or various international groups and nations are going to throw the pro european northern irish majority under a bus to appease a small minority group of loyalist headbangers. You may not practice religion but you're certainly comming across as a nationalist. Last year according to The Northern Ireland Life and Times survey 48% supported the union (down from 54% in 2020). and the majority of them are very loyal. I am well aware that Northern Ireland, a part of the UK, is governed from Belgium, this is testament to weak politicians who are frightened of the EU, and what do you mean by 'your' president Biden? Paddy Biden has fuck all to do with me and it pisses me off that just because the senile old git's great great grandad was a bogtrotter he seems to think he's king of the leprechauns. Of course Sunak Biden and the EU support the Windsor Framework, it doesn't change the protocol and keeps NI in the EU, why wouldn't they support it, but if you think Unionists are going to roll over you're deluded. Unionists for very good reason were against the protocol and the so called Windsor Framework from day 1 and that is not going to change. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 20, 2023 16:58:06 GMT
When you say Unionists do not support the Protocol, are you referring to politicians or the general public? Both? - if the only people they vote to represent them do not support the protocol then its a good guess that is the feeling of the vast majority of Unionists. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 20, 2023 17:01:14 GMT
Very well? Perhaps it was me, but I thought the purpose was to get the GFA working again - if not what was it's purpose? I cant see what there is to discuss mate. President joe has said whats what , and the prime minister of the vassal state has concurred and asked how high president joe wants him to jump. You tell us jocks one minute a minority dont dictate what happens in a so called democracy , then the next , while acknowledging the GFA makes northern ireland special , you then demand a party that got 21 % of the vote gets to dictate what the majority in northern ireland dont want?
Goal posts as ever all over the place in brexiter la la land. WTF are you on about? - are you pissed again?  I'm not demanding anything - the GFA demands it. Bugger all to do with Brexit. It is the GFA that mandates Unionist representation - sorry that you dont like it, but that places you in the same boat as the DUP - they didnt like the GFA either. |
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Post by borchester on Apr 20, 2023 17:02:28 GMT
It seems a lot of fuss over a motor home that Wee Krankie can't even drive, but I would have thought that the real question is how many SNP supporters will transfer their votes to Alba or will they recognise their true loyalty and vote for Anas Sarwar ?
i don’t know the numbers but at what point does a drop in votes for them in favour of another nationalist party start to manifest as lost seats ?? Dunno. As said before, will the SNP loyalists transfer their votes to Alba or back to the Labour party? |
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Post by thomas on Apr 20, 2023 18:37:10 GMT
I cant see what there is to discuss mate. President joe has said whats what , and the prime minister of the vassal state has concurred and asked how high president joe wants him to jump. You tell us jocks one minute a minority dont dictate what happens in a so called democracy , then the next , while acknowledging the GFA makes northern ireland special , you then demand a party that got 21 % of the vote gets to dictate what the majority in northern ireland dont want?
Goal posts as ever all over the place in brexiter la la land. WTF are you on about? - are you pissed again? I'm not demanding anything - the GFA demands it. Bugger all to do with Brexit. It is the GFA that mandates Unionist representation - sorry that you dont like it, but that places you in the same boat as the DUP - they didnt like the GFA either. Am i pissed again ? Ah the auld anglo saxon racial stereotypes are out in force today arent they pacifico. When was i last pissed mate? Red hinks im a catholic because i support celtic , now pacifico thinks im drunk because im scottish.
Are you morris dancing drinking warm beer round the maypole pacifico?
The unionists have representation . In fact the leader of the UUP , doug beattie , was on radio ulster enthusiastically endorsing the return of the stormont assembly during the nolan show.
I keep telling you pacifico , the DUP dont represent ulster unionism........ merely the crackpot fringe of it.
Hiding behind the GFA isnt going to do your dirty work for you pacifico. No one cares in or out of england wether the DUP return to stormont.
Doug Beattie told the Nolan Show on Radio Ulster:
I’m in no doubt the executive will get up and running. It’s not a case of ‘if’, it’s a case of ‘when’ …
It’s my analysis of where we are, because there’s nothing else we can do. We have to get Stormont up and running again.
We have to grasp those opportunities. We have to start doing legislation to help the people of Northern Ireland, all the people of Northern Ireland, and I think we will do.
It’s a case of: when is that going to happen? Now we’re in the middle of an election, so nothing’s going to happen now or afterwards in the marching season.
But I would imagine in the autumn that we will definitely have an executive running again.
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Post by thomas on Apr 20, 2023 18:42:23 GMT
how many SNP supporters will transfer their votes to Alba or will they recognise their true loyalty and vote for Anas Sarwar ?
Keir sarwar?
I tell you borkie ,every time i look at humza i think........nah.....then i look at keir sarwar and hink again.
Latest polls have labour taking over second place with the tories under wee dougie in third.
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Post by thomas on Apr 20, 2023 18:53:11 GMT
What do you mean only a catholic red? I dont practice religion mate, but i was christened church of scotland protestant as a child. My mum was a catholic , and dad church of scotland . So if you are referring to me red , you are making wrong assumption. The DUP who we were talking about ( to pacifico) are a minority party. They dont speak for unionism , and got a mere 21 % of the last stormont vote on a 64 % turnout. Other Unionist parties cant stand them. Unionism lost their majority of stormont for the first time in a century in 2017 , and the biggest growing group in northern ireland is "other" neither orange or green , who are open either way to reunification , but more importantly in a majority are extremely pro european. Wether you like it or not , northern ireland is part of the european union , with european courts , and both the british prime minister and your president biden as well as the EU support the windsor framework. Neither the anglo tory party government , the majority of the political parties in northern ireland , or various international groups and nations are going to throw the pro european northern irish majority under a bus to appease a small minority group of loyalist headbangers. You may not practice religion but you're certainly comming across as a nationalist. Last year according to The Northern Ireland Life and Times survey 48% supported the union (down from 54% in 2020). and the majority of them are very loyal. I am well aware that Northern Ireland, a part of the UK, is governed from Belgium, this is testament to weak politicians who are frightened of the EU, and what do you mean by 'your' president Biden? Paddy Biden has fuck all to do with me and it pisses me off that just because the senile old git's great great grandad was a bogtrotter he seems to think he's king of the leprechauns. Of course Sunak Biden and the EU support the Windsor Framework, it doesn't change the protocol and keeps NI in the EU, why wouldn't they support it, but if you think Unionists are going to roll over you're deluded. Unionists for very good reason were against the protocol and the so called Windsor Framework from day 1 and that is not going to change. What do you mean red? I am a nationalist. A scottish nationalist. You are a british nationalist. Not sure of what your point is regarding nationalism. ?
So the sectarian apartheid state that was set up to maintain a protestant loyalist majority is now in a minority you tell me? Where are we disagreeing?
In part , but also those weak politicians recognise when the tide is against them worldwide.
im just taking the piss red. As you know british foriegn policy has been governed from washington for decades , and with northern ireland , washington has called the shots at least since the days of blair as well. We seem to see more yanks presidents on tv than anyone. Who can forget the likes of theresa may and of course rishi sunak and countless other anglo tory/labour prime ministers falling over the latest incumbent in the whitehouse?
Tell pacifico . He seems to think shouting DUP and GFA like abracadabra that the protocol is going to disappear in a puff of brexiter smoke.
dont agree. You like pacifico are listening to the lunatic fringe , and those who sing the kind of songs you want to hear in northern irish unionism. Many unionists voted emphatically for remaining in the EU , and support the protocol.
The majority of unionists massively support the EU in scotland. The idea unionism in scotland and northern ireland are going to fight and die ( metaphorically speaking of course) for englands brexit is laughable.
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 20, 2023 21:36:49 GMT
Am i pissed again ? Ah the auld anglo saxon racial stereotypes are out in force today arent they pacifico. When was i last pissed mate? Red hinks im a catholic because i support celtic , now pacifico thinks im drunk because im scottish. Are you morris dancing drinking warm beer round the maypole pacifico? Well you are either pissed or an imbecile - and in your lucid moments you seem a bit too switched on to be an imbecile. However if you are convinced that the provisions of the GFA are something to do with Brexit I may have to reconsider. I suggest that when you have sobered up you read up on the provisions of the GFA rather believing everything you hear on some TV program. Specifically Strand 1, Para 5a. Then you might have some concept of what the issues are. |
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Post by thomas on Apr 21, 2023 6:28:54 GMT
Am i pissed again ? Ah the auld anglo saxon racial stereotypes are out in force today arent they pacifico. When was i last pissed mate? Red hinks im a catholic because i support celtic , now pacifico thinks im drunk because im scottish. Are you morris dancing drinking warm beer round the maypole pacifico? Well you are either pissed or an imbecile - and in your lucid moments you seem a bit too switched on to be an imbecile. However if you are convinced that the provisions of the GFA are something to do with Brexit I may have to reconsider. I suggest that when you have sobered up you read up on the provisions of the GFA rather believing everything you hear on some TV program. Specifically Strand 1, Para 5a. Then you might have some concept of what the issues are.
Insults as we know are usually the last refuge of someone losing a debate.
So in the deluded world of pacifico , we are to dismiss the enthusiastic endorsement of the return of stormont by the leader of the ulster unionist party on a major northern irish political show , and instead , believe the unintelligble rantings of an englishman on an obscure political forum who couldnt point ulster out on a map?
I have clear concepts of the issues in northern ireland unlike you pacifico. The point about doug beattie was to show that ulster unionism isnt one single block headed by the DUP who support englands brexiters every wishes.
Lord Reg empey puts the windsor framework into perspective. You do know who reg empey is dont you pacfico?
Lord Empey added: “What I think his speech indicated was the government has tried, over the last six-to-nine months, to work with the DUP to try and make things more acceptable to them.
"I believe they were deeply engaged in the discussions on the Stormont Brake and the government is losing its patience with them – because they thought they had understandings and the DUP hasn't delivered on those.
"I think his speech indicated a loss on his part of patience with the DUP.
"London is now locked into the framework. It's been passed by both houses of parl with 95% majorities.
"The government has moved on. To suggest they're going to tear up the Framework at this stage and start a whole row with Europe, it's not going to happen.”
You have been shouting GFA like some magic word for months on this forum when you venture into discussing what little knowledge you have of northern irish politics. You can keep shouting it for the next few years for anyone cares , but it isnt going to change the fact northern ireland is de facto part of the EU , and thats not going to change becasue as sir reg empey and countless others say , the british elite dont care about northern ireland enough the bother upsetting the yanks or europeans , never mind the irish themselves.
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 21, 2023 7:00:01 GMT
LOL - try and get it through your drink addled brain. It doesn't matter what Doug Beattie, Reg Empey or Uncle Tom Cobbly says - what matters is what is written in the GFA. And what is written means that without the acquiescence of the DUP the intitutions of the GFA are going nowhere.
Which is precisely why we are now seeing suggestions that the GFA be renegotiated to remove the power of the Unionists.
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Post by thomas on Apr 21, 2023 7:34:31 GMT
LOL - try and get it through your drink addled brain. It doesn't matter what Doug Beattie, Reg Empey or Uncle Tom Cobbly says - what matters is what is written in the GFA. And what is written means that without the acquiescence of the DUP the intitutions of the GFA are going nowhere. Which is precisely why we are now seeing suggestions that the GFA be renegotiated to remove the power of the Unionists. im trying to help educate you pacifico.
It does , The point is the DUP as i keep saying dont represent northern irish unionism , only a part of it. When reg empey and doug beattie are both de facto suporting the windsor framework , and getting the stormont assembly back up and running , i can see why you would like to dismiss what they are saying from your ivory tower in englandshire.
can you quote me where it specifically says this , or shall we assume you are as ever making things up again to bolster your shaky position?
Eh? Who is trying to remove the power of all unionists? You are of course yet again exaggerating pacifico. We have one single party of lunatic crackpots sulking in the corner. Many other unionists are determined to get things up and running and power sharing with the acceptance of the uk governments windsor framework.
I tell you pacifico , you do like to over dramatise things dont you?
I suppose that nearly sevenyears on from the brexit vote , you are still unhappy northern ireland hasnt had brexit enacted , so have to make mountains out of molehills. 
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 21, 2023 11:33:32 GMT
It does , The point is the DUP as i keep saying dont represent northern irish unionism , only a part of it. When reg empey and doug beattie are both de facto suporting the windsor framework , and getting the stormont assembly back up and running , i can see why you would like to dismiss what they are saying from your ivory tower in englandshire. Reg Empey and Doug Beattie do not determine what is written in the GFA I linked to the relevant part of the GFA earlier - you couldn't be arsed to read it hence your error now. Well I wouldn't call the operation of the GFA a molehill - it is the one thing that has stopped vast numbers of deranged Irishmen killing each other. With regards to Brexit - I dont live in NI so whether it is fully enacted there or not is of no consequence to me. My part of the UK is going swimmingly thanks. |
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Post by thomas on Apr 21, 2023 14:46:52 GMT
It does , The point is the DUP as i keep saying dont represent northern irish unionism , only a part of it. When reg empey and doug beattie are both de facto suporting the windsor framework , and getting the stormont assembly back up and running , i can see why you would like to dismiss what they are saying from your ivory tower in englandshire. Reg Empey and Doug Beattie do not determine what is written in the GFA You are grappling with a fait accompli pacifico.
You tell us under the GFA ( lets humour your lack of knowledge and complete misunderstanding of stuff like the petition of concern) everyone needs the DUP cooperation ( a party that got 21 % of the vote) and if not , the other 79 % need to lump it and the protocol cannot happen.
The reality is , outside of anglo brexiter la la land , the DUP are off in a huff , and the representatives of both unionism and nationalism /other ( 79%) want to get stormont up and running. On top of that , the british government , the americans , the europeans and irish , supported by the majority of people in northern ireland , have enacted the protocol.
You dont determine whats written in the GFA. You neither live in , not have a vote in northern ireland. I will listen to northern irish politicians before i listen to someone in england who doesnt have the foggiest clue what the fuck they are talking about regarding the place.
Let me know mate when northern ireland leaves the EU wont you pacifico?
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Post by thomas on Apr 21, 2023 14:50:00 GMT
It does , The point is the DUP as i keep saying dont represent northern irish unionism , only a part of it. When reg empey and doug beattie are both de facto suporting the windsor framework , and getting the stormont assembly back up and running , i can see why you would like to dismiss what they are saying from your ivory tower in englandshire. I linked to the relevant part of the GFA earlier - you couldn't be arsed to read it hence your error now. I read the link and i cant see the bit that says everyone needs DUP acquisience. Could you kindly quote me where it says this , or as ever , we can dismiss as another of your empty claims . |
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