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Post by Handyman on Apr 16, 2023 14:40:48 GMT
There is a long history of working people who have repeatedly voted against their own well being, as throughout the 1980s for instance. Its down to the lies the insinuated lies, the persistent insults and denigration promoted by the money power come Tory propaganda machine. And the idiots who suck it up and spread it because they have been suckered into believing the right-wing garbage. You do understand that although you like to group people into a label (eg working class), those labels are virtually meaningless because we are not clones, we all have individual circumstances? So to say working people vote against their interest is equally meaningless. All you are really saying is that you think you have some kind of superior intellect that makes you above "propaganda"... which is very ironic, because you have literally stolen this thought from left wing propaganda haha. Some live in the past what do they mean by " working class" the days of flat caps, mufflers, clogs and shawls working 12 hours a day for a tanner are long gone and will never come back, the days when only the wealthy could travel and sunbathe by the Med are also gone. Some cannot work out that people will vote how they wish for whom they wish, many of them don't believe the usual words from the far left , its the rich that are holding you down any longer, that is why the Tories have been elected more times than the Labour. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 16, 2023 15:20:12 GMT
You do understand that although you like to group people into a label (eg working class), those labels are virtually meaningless because we are not clones, we all have individual circumstances? So to say working people vote against their interest is equally meaningless. All you are really saying is that you think you have some kind of superior intellect that makes you above "propaganda"... which is very ironic, because you have literally stolen this thought from left wing propaganda haha. Some live in the past what do they mean by " working class" the days of flat caps, mufflers, clogs and shawls working 12 hours a day for a tanner are long gone and will never come back, the days when only the wealthy could travel and sunbathe by the Med are also gone. Some cannot work out that people will vote how they wish for whom they wish, many of them don't believe the usual words from the far left , its the rich that are holding you down any longer, that is why the Tories have been elected more times than the Labour. I think the term 'working people' just differentiates between the average wage at the lower end of the wage scale. I worked as a trained engineer for nearly thirty years, as a 'leading hand' in the latter years. I left engineering back in 1990 and retrained into a professional position. I almost trebled my pay immediately and my pay level continued to rise, enjoyed cleaner quieter working conditions, was treated with respect plus a few perks started to come my way. I have experienced a big difference between an average wage and a professional wage and a big difference in working conditions. IMO reward for effort doesn't reach the working people that I refer to. Ban misleading and insinuating propaganda, and lets how the Tories do then. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 16, 2023 15:23:06 GMT
I provided evidence that was plain to see, yet you still resist the obvious. Mind reading was not and is not needed. Well as Dave pointed out, your supposed mind reading abilities are bunk - I'll leave it at that.  Just more SLIME throwing by sick in the mind Righties. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 16, 2023 15:41:50 GMT
I used the term "working people". Thatcher did enormous financial and social damage yet she was repeatedly voted for serving 11 years, and only then kicked out of office by her own party. How is that not working people --- repeatedly voting against "their own well being"? --- I recognise right-wing garbage when I see it. I imagine your laugh was an idiots giggle. What financial and social damage did she do? The economy was starting to boom when she left office and was recognisesdas strong. The social damage is a subjective opinion. If it is mining communities she only hastened the inevitable as the eco warriors would be sitting at pitheads to stop coal being extracted. Thatcher: Continually rising unemployment up to 4 million. Major waiting times for hospital appointments and joint repair operations. Grant Maintained Education that saw most state schools seriously underfunded. She sold off the family silver including oil and gas. Despite all her selling, growth stumbled along at 1% which is where it was when she got slung out of office by her own party. |
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Post by see2 on Apr 16, 2023 15:48:02 GMT
That's not true. Possibly the most notorious were the print unions and their teamster's style closed shops. Even other unions saw that and ended up booting out NGA, AUEW, and Sogart. That was the reason Murdoch was able to get Wapping up and running with approx 700 printers producing the same as 7000 of the old lot.
Miners and train drivers were probably the most disliked and caused more misery among the general population...
Indeed. My father was a shop steward (FOC) in the NGA many moons ago but he sacked it off in the early 70s due to the ridiculous union excesses.
Would that be when the TUC agreed with the government to hold wage increases at 5%? Which was the point I made that 'patman post' apparently missed ^^^ |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 16, 2023 15:56:37 GMT
What financial and social damage did she do? The economy was starting to boom when she left office and was recognisesdas strong. The social damage is a subjective opinion. If it is mining communities she only hastened the inevitable as the eco warriors would be sitting at pitheads to stop coal being extracted. Thatcher: Continually rising unemployment up to 4 million. Major waiting times for hospital appointments and joint repair operations. Grant Maintained Education that saw most state schools seriously underfunded. She sold off the family silver including oil and gas. Despite all her selling, growth stumbled along at 1% which is where it was when she got slung out of office by her own party. LOL - more twaddle.. Under Thatcher, GDP rose by 29.4 per cent — an average of 0.6 per cent growth per quarter. ( That’s the same as the average growth rate from 1955 to 2013.) |
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Post by see2 on Apr 16, 2023 16:43:14 GMT
Thatcher: Continually rising unemployment up to 4 million. Major waiting times for hospital appointments and joint repair operations. Grant Maintained Education that saw most state schools seriously underfunded. She sold off the family silver including oil and gas. Despite all her selling, growth stumbled along at 1% which is where it was when she got slung out of office by her own party. LOL - more twaddle.. Under Thatcher, GDP rose by 29.4 per cent — an average of 0.6 per cent growth per quarter. ( That’s the same as the average growth rate from 1955 to 2013.) Her last year in office was around 1.8% growth, her average growth was less than Blair's average. She sold the family silver in order to keep her head above water, I wonder how much of her income was used on unemployment pay and such like? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2023 16:54:14 GMT
One of the really big problems for the washed out Tories is that they are so out of touch with reality
News story from today >>
Tory Chairman Greg Hands Mocked After Claiming Public Services Are ‘In Great Shape’
He was then savaged after claiming Britain’s public services are “in great shape”.
He made the extraordinary comments on LBC despite NHS waiting lists being at a record high and teachers, nurses, doctors and civil servants planning another wave of public sector strikes.
LBC Presenter Andrew Castle responded: “I find it absolutely extraordinary that you’ve said that.
“I don’t feel that myself and I don’t think my listeners would either.
Responding to the comments, shadow health Secretary Wes Streeting said: “He’s living on a different planet, isn’t he?
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 16, 2023 17:09:56 GMT
LOL - more twaddle.. Under Thatcher, GDP rose by 29.4 per cent — an average of 0.6 per cent growth per quarter. ( That’s the same as the average growth rate from 1955 to 2013.) Her last year in office was around 1.8% growth, her average growth was less than Blair's average. She sold the family silver in order to keep her head above water, I wonder how much of her income was used on unemployment pay and such like? LOL - Blair was gifted a booming economy from the Tories - Thatcher was inherited an economic basket case from Labour. As it happens once Labour stopped following Tory spending plans after the first 3 years, Blairs record for 2001-2006 averages out at 2.4% - which is exactly the same as Thatchers average. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 16, 2023 17:16:46 GMT
LOL - more twaddle.. Under Thatcher, GDP rose by 29.4 per cent — an average of 0.6 per cent growth per quarter. ( That’s the same as the average growth rate from 1955 to 2013.) Her last year in office was around 1.8% growth, her average growth was less than Blair's average. She sold the family silver in order to keep her head above water, I wonder how much of her income was used on unemployment pay and such like? Blair was reaping the rewards of all the hard work done by the Tories. He had a booming economy primarily becasue he opened the floodgates to all and sundry. There are better things than growth. If you are looking for a government that destroyed many cohesive communities in the UK look no further than Labour and New Labour and sowed the seeds of the immense gap opening up between workers and bosses. The post war consensus in part destroyed itself as it could not be maintained without rampant inflation. Selsdon man sold the electorate a promise and then about turned because he could not face the hard times to come from his promised policies. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Apr 16, 2023 17:18:47 GMT
I know families that are struggling that vote Tory. Exactly. Idiots. Some of us would prefer to keep more of what we earn rather than donating it to the feckless and workshy via a Labour government.
The idiots are those that would do otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2023 17:27:28 GMT
And so if the good times under Blair were because of the Tories ( which is actually very funny ), then why did the Tories not only not bring in a National Minimum Wage, but also why did they oppose its introduction.
Why did the Tories not repair all the damage THEY DID as per usual to the NHS, why did they not do what Tony Blair did and turn around the waiting lists and waiting times.
Why did the Tories not do anything to help people on low incomes, meaning WORKING people, such as SureStart or Working Tax Credits.
Most of what Tony Blair did was to help ordinary people, people that go out to work, work hard, but struggle. The Tories did absolutely nothing for such people, except to make life harder, the introduction of the disasterous Poll Tax which eventually brought down Margaret Thatcher.
The Tories did things that a Labour government would NEVER contemplate, they took away employment rights which were restored by Blair and Brown.
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Post by sandypine on Apr 16, 2023 17:57:02 GMT
And so if the good times under Blair were because of the Tories ( which is actually very funny ), then why did the Tories not only not bring in a National Minimum Wage, but also why did they oppose its introduction. Why did the Tories not repair all the damage THEY DID as per usual to the NHS, why did they not do what Tony Blair did and turn around the waiting lists and waiting times. Why did the Tories not do anything to help people on low incomes, meaning WORKING people, such as SureStart or Working Tax Credits. Most of what Tony Blair did was to help ordinary people, people that go out to work, work hard, but struggle. The Tories did absolutely nothing for such people, except to make life harder, the introduction of the disasterous Poll Tax which eventually brought down Margaret Thatcher. The Tories did things that a Labour government would NEVER contemplate, they took away employment rights which were restored by Blair and Brown. Well for my wife and myself the 'good times' under Blair did not materialise. We were both made redundant within a few months and we were both 'working people'. Blair did not help those as he insisted on having lots of other people arrive to keep those in work on their toes. Having 'employment rights' was necessary to keep employers in line who paid the minimum wage. Giving someone the right to keep a poorly paid job is not the same as having access to well paid jobs |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 16, 2023 21:07:03 GMT
Most of what Tony Blair did was to help ordinary people, Bullshit - Blair opened the floodgates to mass immigration that led to the wage stagnation we see today. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Apr 16, 2023 21:11:18 GMT
And so if the good times under Blair were because of the Tories ( which is actually very funny ), then why did the Tories not only not bring in a National Minimum Wage, but also why did they oppose its introduction. Why did the Tories not repair all the damage THEY DID as per usual to the NHS, why did they not do what Tony Blair did and turn around the waiting lists and waiting times. Why did the Tories not do anything to help people on low incomes, meaning WORKING people, such as SureStart or Working Tax Credits. Most of what Tony Blair did was to help ordinary people, people that go out to work, work hard, but struggle. The Tories did absolutely nothing for such people, except to make life harder, the introduction of the disasterous Poll Tax which eventually brought down Margaret Thatcher. The Tories did things that a Labour government would NEVER contemplate, they took away employment rights which were restored by Blair and Brown. Well for my wife and myself the 'good times' under Blair did not materialise. We were both made redundant within a few months and we were both 'working people'. Blair did not help those as he insisted on having lots of other people arrive to keep those in work on their toes. Having 'employment rights' was necessary to keep employers in line who paid the minimum wage. Giving someone the right to keep a poorly paid job is not the same as having access to well paid jobs Me too Under Major the tax man told me i could not claim B&B expenses as a business expense as his could i possibly be carrying out business while asleep. i took that lunacy to a tribunal And i lost I was penalised 8% of the total tax relief i had claimed. The tosseroo in the tribunal said he quite understood how i was fooled into thinking i was able to claim as a business the very same expenses as my employer the year before had claimed for me but this eas not tbe case, and they were imposing tbe absolute minimum penalty for my misunderstanding … unquote That afternoon i became a radical. I did not go as far as two nutters who later became infamous in freelancer history by thinking brown’s attack on ACT reclaim was a benefit that reduced their tax, nor did i do the ultimate of arranging money from overseas clients be sent to an isle of man bank, collected in cash and thrown out of a window of a light aircraft onto farmland owned by a relative but i would have done. Suffice to say i took advantage between 1992 when Major’s rottweilers fucked me over to 1999 when Blair destroyed my company’s ability to carry on in business to pay as little as humanly possible. In the aftermath of Blairs antics in 1999 small companies were banned from organising list x status to tender for classified work outside of registering with a select few scum including fishy rishys wife’s cowboys infosys. I left the classified business and went into other work. It is no accident the project i was forced to abandon, which was handed to one of those megacorps at five times the hourly rate, when it came to rollout, fired its missiles on a trajectory exactly 180 degrees out of track with where they should have gone Yes. The missiles flew directly away from the target. What jolly fun. Not my problem. |
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