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Post by zanygame on Apr 14, 2023 5:57:13 GMT
Is the EU doing better than the ununited kingdom. In what? - rioting? economics |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 14, 2023 6:01:11 GMT
I often wonder why our competing EU countries can afford to pay more for their health care with higher taxes and yet not all crumble like they claim we would. Wow! - lauding healthcare in France.. next you will take the very small step to agreeing that we should have the same healthcare as France.. I'm sure you will agree that Frances model of healthcare not free at the point of use is the way forward?..  If you search your memory you will remember I did. I was not against considering separating health insurance payments. However the NHS matched those of France etc when it was funded as well, so there is no need for change. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 14, 2023 6:47:58 GMT
Not seeing it - the IMF growth forecast for the next 5 years puts us pretty much in the centre of the pack for the G7, so (with obvious caveats to forecasts being wrong) I'd say we were doing so-so.  |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 14, 2023 6:49:22 GMT
Wow! - lauding healthcare in France.. next you will take the very small step to agreeing that we should have the same healthcare as France.. I'm sure you will agree that Frances model of healthcare not free at the point of use is the way forward?.. If you search your memory you will remember I did. I was not against considering separating health insurance payments. However the NHS matched those of France etc when it was funded as well, so there is no need for change. Certainly not my recollection...can I borrow your tinted sunglasses? |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 14, 2023 6:52:40 GMT
The NHS is already hugely privatised, from suppliers to agency staff. It just isnt visible because it doesnt win any votes.
Having used both systems and without going into detail, i have a range of choices as to how much i pay and for what.
Cancer and heart are free.
I then can chooose to "buy" such things as radiography, echography, osteopathy including hip and knee replacements, hospitalisation, a wide range of surgery, eye, teeth and hearing care and a private hospital room, nursing care at home, physiotherapy at home, blood tests and results by internet at home, doctors appointments, meals and cleaners at home plus almost all medication, for around 1000 euros a year paid monthly.Plus any ambulance or taxi travel i needed. My husband was once airlifted by helicopter on a two hour journey.
When i worked in the UK i paid around that in National Insurance. And got nothing like this. What I got was hours in A and E and weeks or months of waiting to see a consultant, never mind the tests and xrays afterwards. Instead of being offered nursing care at home i was sent away with a box of paracetamol and told to make a doctors appointment if i needed to. Which took days or even weeks to start all over again.
I have run the gamut of using the health service here and it is wonderful. At every stage i was given the personal details of doctors and nurses if i needed them. They could always find me time to discuss my husbands issues when i visited the wards. In an emergency at home an ambulance arrived within 15 minutes.
If the UK could provide anything close to that without privatisation and personal insurance topping out national insurance, it wouldnt be having doctors and nurses on strike and people in long term pain at home.
The NHS does not and cannot supply a proper and complete health service free at the point of use. NI cant possibly cover it and anyway that is in fact a tax. The money the government says it invests in the NHS is also tax money. And if it chooses to use it to pay for private services it will. And does. And you will never know. How do you think Specsavers is so successful? It is a private company which would be supported by taxation in France and therefore prices would fall.
The idea of a free NHS is a magicians trick, hiding cards up sleeves and getting you to look the other way. I see no reason why the NHS should not use private services. Why it cant negotiate good contractual terms at competitive prices. Then maybe the UK could pay its staff a proper wage and not suffer extended strikes.
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 14, 2023 9:14:21 GMT
Not seeing it - the IMF growth forecast for the next 5 years puts us pretty much in the centre of the pack for the G7, so (with obvious caveats to forecasts being wrong) I'd say we were doing so-so. Exactly, it's intermediate. No worse than the EU but Oracle and co. can't help themselves. Here's another graphic displaying with the UK outperforming the G7 if the US is excluded. Doesn't say much for the EU.  Another sting in the tail for Europhiles:      To sum it up, Europhiles talk a lot of horse manure when trying desperately to run the nation down because it left the EU. |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 14, 2023 11:57:16 GMT
Not seeing it - the IMF growth forecast for the next 5 years puts us pretty much in the centre of the pack for the G7, so (with obvious caveats to forecasts being wrong) I'd say we were doing so-so. Exactly, it's intermediate. No worse than the EU but Oracle and co. can't help themselves. Here's another graphic displaying with the UK outperforming the G7 if the US is excluded. Doesn't say much for the EU. Another sting in the tail for Europhiles: To sum it up, Europhiles talk a lot of horse manure when trying desperately to run the nation down because it left the EU. I havent discussed the economics. I have mentioned the health systems. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 14, 2023 18:13:12 GMT
Not seeing it - the IMF growth forecast for the next 5 years puts us pretty much in the centre of the pack for the G7, so (with obvious caveats to forecasts being wrong) I'd say we were doing so-so. Who's forecast is that? At the moment the IMF have us bottom of the G8 with not much chance of catching up. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 14, 2023 18:14:14 GMT
If you search your memory you will remember I did. I was not against considering separating health insurance payments. However the NHS matched those of France etc when it was funded as well, so there is no need for change. Certainly not my recollection...can I borrow your tinted sunglasses? No, yours are better. |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 14, 2023 18:20:13 GMT
The NHS is already hugely privatised, from suppliers to agency staff. It just isnt visible because it doesnt win any votes. Having used both systems and without going into detail, i have a range of choices as to how much i pay and for what. Cancer and heart are free. I then can chooose to "buy" such things as radiography, echography, osteopathy including hip and knee replacements, hospitalisation, a wide range of surgery, eye, teeth and hearing care and a private hospital room, nursing care at home, physiotherapy at home, blood tests and results by internet at home, doctors appointments, meals and cleaners at home plus almost all medication, for around 1000 euros a year paid monthly.Plus any ambulance or taxi travel i needed. My husband was once airlifted by helicopter on a two hour journey. When i worked in the UK i paid around that in National Insurance. And got nothing like this. What I got was hours in A and E and weeks or months of waiting to see a consultant, never mind the tests and xrays afterwards. Instead of being offered nursing care at home i was sent away with a box of paracetamol and told to make a doctors appointment if i needed to. Which took days or even weeks to start all over again. I have run the gamut of using the health service here and it is wonderful. At every stage i was given the personal details of doctors and nurses if i needed them. They could always find me time to discuss my husbands issues when i visited the wards. In an emergency at home an ambulance arrived within 15 minutes. If the UK could provide anything close to that without privatisation and personal insurance topping out national insurance, it wouldnt be having doctors and nurses on strike and people in long term pain at home. The NHS does not and cannot supply a proper and complete health service free at the point of use. NI cant possibly cover it and anyway that is in fact a tax. The money the government says it invests in the NHS is also tax money. And if it chooses to use it to pay for private services it will. And does. And you will never know. How do you think Specsavers is so successful? It is a private company which would be supported by taxation in France and therefore prices would fall. The idea of a free NHS is a magicians trick, hiding cards up sleeves and getting you to look the other way. I see no reason why the NHS should not use private services. Why it cant negotiate good contractual terms at competitive prices. Then maybe the UK could pay its staff a proper wage and not suffer extended strikes. Thanks Oracle. Very interesting. Can you give me an idea of the combined cost of public and private insurance to get all health care covered in France. |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 14, 2023 18:34:58 GMT
I dont know hoq much of the national taxation is in the French budget but i can confirm after speaking to my insurance company that all the benefits i listed will cost around 1000 euros a year, or less than 100 euros per month.
Some in the UK pay more than that in prescription charges.
The proportion of French tax revenue that goes into health is i am sure available online somewhere.
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Post by zanygame on Apr 14, 2023 18:55:05 GMT
I dont know hoq much of the national taxation is in the French budget but i can confirm after speaking to my insurance company that all the benefits i listed will cost around 1000 euros a year, or less than 100 euros per month. Some in the UK pay more than that in prescription charges. The proportion of French tax revenue that goes into health is i am sure available online somewhere. Germany had the highest level of current healthcare expenditure among the EU Member States, valued at €432 billion in 2020. France recorded the second highest level of current healthcare expenditure (€281 billion), followed by Italy (€160 billion) and Spain (€120 billion). |
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Post by zanygame on Apr 14, 2023 19:00:52 GMT
Not seeing it - the IMF growth forecast for the next 5 years puts us pretty much in the centre of the pack for the G7, so (with obvious caveats to forecasts being wrong) I'd say we were doing so-so. Exactly, it's intermediate. No worse than the EU but Oracle and co. can't help themselves. Here's another graphic displaying with the UK outperforming the G7 if the US is excluded. Doesn't say much for the EU. Another sting in the tail for Europhiles: To sum it up, Europhiles talk a lot of horse manure when trying desperately to run the nation down because it left the EU. Link please. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 14, 2023 21:23:03 GMT
Not seeing it - the IMF growth forecast for the next 5 years puts us pretty much in the centre of the pack for the G7, so (with obvious caveats to forecasts being wrong) I'd say we were doing so-so. Who's forecast is that? At the moment the IMF have us bottom of the G8 with not much chance of catching up. Yes - that is what the table I published showed (  ). And averaged out over the next 5 years the IMF are forecasting we are just middling - not the worst and not the best. Please tell me you are not just cherry picking a single year to make some daft political point? - if so then can I pick last year when we were the fastest growing economy in the G7? |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 14, 2023 21:23:55 GMT
Certainly not my recollection...can I borrow your tinted sunglasses? No, yours are better. Well mine is based on actual usage of the NHS - what is your based on? |
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). And averaged out over the next 5 years the IMF are forecasting we are just middling - not the worst and not the best.