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Post by bancroft on Mar 30, 2023 11:18:54 GMT
Gunmen post Good Friday often went into crime so needs careful reporting to distinguish drugs death from a political death.
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Post by thomas on Mar 30, 2023 14:53:52 GMT
Never happen anyway pacifico.
Lets face it and be brutally honest here , the westmisnter government are looking for a face saving way of quietly deposing of northern ireland. A province that is slowly but surely going nationalist and obviously is pro european , the writing is on the wall for the end of the current uk as it stands.
Circa £12 billion per annum to keep somewhere that doesnt want to be part of the uk , costs more than the old EU membership bill , and now has an effective border down the irish sea between it and the rest of the uk , plus the fact the majority in the rUK couldnt care less about the place according to polls over many years , what exactly would be the point in sending troops over there?
I would imagine if violence god forbid did kick off , and a few geriatric and disgruntled orangemen got the hump , its more likely an international peace keeping force rather than the depleted british army would possibly be sent there.
Being deadly serious , i think behind the scenes , rishi would ask washington what he should do in that scenario. You are dreaming - nobody is going to put their troops into a sectarian spat in NI when they dont have to. Least of all the british. The point is though , this is no longer about the excuse of the british government looking after the security of a lawless and wayward province.
Apart from the lack of british spine , finance and troops on the ground as others have commented , the european union and washington have been involved in the peace process for decades. The Eu alone has pumped billions into the province , not to mention the billions the yanks gave .
I dont seriously think any armed force is going to have to go into a province to keep a couple of angry orangemen , bitter about being deserted by the motherlands government , in line.
You are twisting things again. I know its hard to accept pacifico , but you need to follow your leaders and come round to the idea the island of ireland is no longer part of the old empire, but part of the EU.
The old uk died a century ago , and the current uk is on its last dying breath. I suspect all those orangemen with irish and european citizenship passports will breath a sigh of relief when they no longer have to pretend to be british .
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 30, 2023 17:10:01 GMT
Keep on dreaming again Thomas - the chances of any EU nation putting boots on the ground to keep warring factions apart is zero.
Perhaps Scotland can send their troops? - after all they started the problem in the first place.
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Post by Montegriffo on Mar 30, 2023 18:12:34 GMT
I think British Infantry is still amongst the best in the world. If they needed to go to Ireland I'm sure they would get the hang of oppression pretty fast. They've still got all the notes from the last time. All the experience, the training areas and infrastructure, it's all gone. It will take at least ten years to get todays infantry to the same level of FIBUA competence as they were in the 1980's/1990's. Oh ye of little faith. We still have a very professional army. I've no doubt they would be up to task if required. It's our spineless politicians who wouldn't make muster. |
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Post by bancroft on Mar 30, 2023 18:14:15 GMT
It will be interesting if Biden goes there, will he push for unification of Ireland and say the referendums should happen in both parts?
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Post by Montegriffo on Mar 30, 2023 18:15:23 GMT
It will be interesting if Biden goes there, will he push for unification of Ireland and say the referendums should happen in both parts? I'd hope he has the sense to keep well out of it. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 30, 2023 18:54:36 GMT
Perhaps Scotland can send their troops? - after all they started the problem in the first place. what are we getting the blame for now?  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2023 19:42:50 GMT
It will be interesting if Biden goes there, will he push for unification of Ireland and say the referendums should happen in both parts? What if he does? He's the POTUS not President of the World. |
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Post by Ripley on Mar 30, 2023 20:41:13 GMT
It will be interesting if Biden goes there, will he push for unification of Ireland and say the referendums should happen in both parts? Certainly, Biden is interested in what happens in Ireland, and American opposition to Brexit may be the reason there is no FTA between Britain and the US, but I think it's premature to suppose that Biden would 'push for the unification of Ireland' given that without a referendum there is no way to establish if that's even what the Irish want. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 30, 2023 21:38:04 GMT
Perhaps Scotland can send their troops? - after all they started the problem in the first place. what are we getting the blame for now? Well sectarianism in Ireland was not an issue until the Scots started arriving and brought their Calvanist church with them |
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Post by Ripley on Mar 30, 2023 21:51:09 GMT
what are we getting the blame for now? Well sectarianism in Ireland was not an issue until the Scots started arriving and brought their Calvanist church with them Ahem... The Plantation of Ulster was the organised colonisation (plantation) of Ulster – a province of Ireland – by people from Great Britain during the reign of King James I. Most of the settlers (or planters) came from southern Scotland and northern England… Among those involved in planning and overseeing the plantation were King James, the Lord Deputy of Ireland, (representative of the monarch) Arthur Chichester, and the Attorney-General for Ireland, Englishman John Davies. They saw the plantation as a means of controlling, anglicising, and "civilising" Ulster. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_of_Ulster |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 30, 2023 21:57:05 GMT
Yes, as I said. The transportation to Ireland of a lot of Calvanist Scots led to the sectarianism we see today. The same sectarianism that has plagued Scotland for decades..
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Post by Ripley on Mar 30, 2023 21:59:54 GMT
what are we getting the blame for now? Well sectarianism in Ireland was not an issue until the Scots started arriving and brought their Calvanist church with them Of course they were Calvinists. Only Protestants were permitted to go. That was the whole point of the exercise. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 31, 2023 7:46:14 GMT
what are we getting the blame for now? Well sectarianism in Ireland was not an issue until the Scots started arriving and brought their Calvanist church with them Really ? How so?
The english queen mary tudor began the planting of ireland in the 16th century. James the saxth , upon the advice of his english ministers , carried on the policy , but then started using ireland as a place to send his "undesireables" in the early 17th century.
Despite the religous differences between the scots and irish in the main , they shared the same gaelic language and culture , with many scots planters coming from gaelic speaking areas such as ayrshire/galloway or fife etc.
William of orange hated the scots/irish presbyterians that much three quarters of a million of them fled to america and the colonies.
The irish presbyterians of scots descent became dissenting protestants to british rule , with many of them leading the rebellion of 1798.
It was hugh boulter , the archbishop of armagh who famously said to the british...."when protestant and papist unite , you can kiss goodbye to british rule in ireland".
By the mid nineteenth century , some 250 years after the original scottish plantings , steps were then taken to ferment division between presbyterians and catholics by allowing the protestant dissenters into the orange order , and it was from then on in that sectariansim as we know it today appeared.
Sectariansim was a british government policy of divide and conquer as all the world knows which is roughly around 150 off years old.
Funny how its only the british part of the island though that the british disease of sectariansim is rife. There are plenty of protestants in the republic , and of course dublin , not belfast , was the original centre of westmisnter rule of ireland for 700 of the last 800 years , with the orange order originally being founded in dublin , with a major headquarters there till free state troopers stormed it .
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Post by thomas on Mar 31, 2023 7:55:04 GMT
Yes, as I said. The transportation to Ireland of a lot of Calvanist Scots led to the sectarianism we see today. The same sectarianism that has plagued Scotland for decades.. no it didnt. Yet more anglo saxon fantasy history
rubbish. Sectariansim , if you read books by expert historians like tam devine and many others , has plagued scotland since the mass irish immigration of the late 19th century.
Its not some inherent afflication of scottish making. The irish brought their religous divides and arguments with them , which generally only affected the parts of scotland (south west central belt in the main but not exclusively) where they settled.
Carfin in lanarkshire , (irish catholic republican) and larkhall ( staunchly protestant) are small examples of this.
There was no sectariansim in scotland of any note prior to this as most catholics had been ejected by the scottish reformation. If i mind correct it was lloyd georges government in westmisnter that forced scotland to accept catholic churches once more , and of course we all know both tory and labour over the course of modern history have tried largely unsuccessfully to cultivate sectarianism in scotland for their own ends. Prominent labour mps have been as you probably know largely pro irish republican , and tory mps including muppets like the murdo fraser staunch rangers/orange order type protestants.
Its a british disease of your countries manufacture.......
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