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Post by oracle75 on Mar 24, 2023 13:03:39 GMT
"Should Labour say Brexit a Mistake?"
Yes please - feel free to start a campaign to rejoin the EU and dont let anyone stop you..  The EU would stop you. |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 24, 2023 13:16:13 GMT
People voted to get out of the clutches of the EUSSR. We new exactly what we were voting for. Fortunately there were not enough Karen morons to vote to stay in the clutches of a frigging dictatorship. The EU is not a dictatorship. The public in EU countries are not given the opportunity to vote for its policies, or against. What would you call the situation of being unable to choose the policies you're governed by? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 13:54:34 GMT
We certainly have a problem with too many idiots believing crap like that. The EU is not a dictatorship. Most of it's members have democratic systems that are more democratic than ours, and elected governments enjoy veto powers. And to try and insinuate that the EU is remotely similar to the USSR as you stupidly do is utterly ridiculous. It is a free market system for one thing encouraging trade and fair competition, not an anti-capitalist monolith. Nor does it send in the tanks when anyone wants to break away, nor does it prevent it's own citizens from leaving with walls, barbed wire, and machine guns. In posting such shite as the comments above you merely make yourself look rabidly delusional, as if you are speaking of an alternate reality that does not actually exist. This marks you down as something of an extremist, evidenced by your rabid language. I see you and your ilk steered well clear on the thread that I started telling you that th EUSSR are now stifling free speach...But what more can we expect from those who cannon't even manage to tie their own shoelaces whithout a directive from the Dictators based in Brussels. And here you are with yet more utter drivel. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 14:01:28 GMT
The EU is not a dictatorship. The public in EU countries are not given the opportunity to vote for its policies, or against. What would you call the situation of being unable to choose the policies you're governed by? Ii is the democratically elected member governments who are to blame for that and who ultimately collectively make the decisions. When we were in it our government always opposed moves towards greater democratic accountability on the grounds this this would undermine our own national sovereignty. The EU is only as democratic as democratically elected governments, anxious to preserve their own powers, would allow it to be. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 24, 2023 15:00:25 GMT
The goal was to leave the EU . The aftermath was subject to speculation. The goal has been achieved . But can you really not see that the reason many voted for it is that they were persuaded we would be better off outside. If the opposite appears to be true as it does at the moment, more and more people will regret the decision to leave and turn on those who sold the idea to them. So it matters politically, and could eventually result in a head of steam building up for a closer association with the EU again. So the goal has not been achieved in a way that works for us. Nope. If the goal is to leave the club and you leave the club then the goal has been achieved. What ‘Brexit’ was the act of leaving the EU. I am merely point out your false claim that goal of brexit was anything more than leaving the EU. We effectively left the EU just a couple of years ago and you may have noticed that the new PM has a far different approach than the last one consequently we will not know how much benefit that we will get by leaving the EU until a few years time. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 15:28:54 GMT
BRITISH DEMOCRACY
We have an unelected head of state
We have an unelected upper house of Parliament
We have a so called "Established Church", which allows Bishops from a Church where less than 1% of the population attend regularly.
Our unelected head of state promises to defend only one particular Christian faith, as opposed to the modern day accepted concept of "Freedom Of Religion" (All Religion).
Yes the UK is very democratic
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Post by Bentley on Mar 24, 2023 15:46:47 GMT
BRITISH DEMOCRACY We have an unelected head of state We have an unelected upper house of Parliament We have a so called "Established Church", which allows Bishops from a Church where less than 1% of the population attend regularly. Our unelected head of state promises to defend only one particular Christian faith, as opposed to the modern day accepted concept of "Freedom Of Religion" (All Religion). Yes the UK is very democratic We have a constitutional monarchy. That’s a good thing . We have an appointment chamber to run proposed laws past. Church ..pah.. Our head of state has said that he will defend all faiths iirc. Charles “ As I tried to describe, I mind about the inclusion of other people’s faiths and their freedom to worship in this country. And it’s always seemed to me that, while at the same time being Defender of the Faith, you can also be protector of faiths.” www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/09/king-charles-to-be-defender-of-the-faith-but-also-a-defender-of-faiths?CMP=Share_iOSApp_OtherNothing to see here……. |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 24, 2023 15:54:19 GMT
BRITISH DEMOCRACY We have an unelected head of state We have an unelected upper house of Parliament We have a so called "Established Church", which allows Bishops from a Church where less than 1% of the population attend regularly. Our unelected head of state promises to defend only one particular Christian faith, as opposed to the modern day accepted concept of "Freedom Of Religion" (All Religion). Yes the UK is very democratic ^ Strawman fallacy. 1) You assume leavers support all of the above. 2) None of the above justifies the unelected Commission and the complete lack of accountability to voters that goes with it. If the EU had an elected cabinet instead of the Commision I'd support it. Because with democracy it would be able to start addressing the serious faults that exist inside it, not least the lack of wage parity across it at the bottom. Deal with its flaws and build it into something that works and I'd consider rejoining. Our decision to leave has affected them in ways that remaining never could have. They are now talking about giving MEPs the power of legislative initiative. That is a very VERY positive step forwards. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 24, 2023 15:59:22 GMT
"Should Labour say Brexit a Mistake?"
Yes please - feel free to start a campaign to rejoin the EU and dont let anyone stop you.. The EU would stop you. The EU will not look a £10 Billion gift horse in the mouth..  |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 24, 2023 16:04:36 GMT
The public in EU countries are not given the opportunity to vote for its policies, or against. What would you call the situation of being unable to choose the policies you're governed by? Ii is the democratically elected member governments who are to blame for that and who ultimately collectively make the decisions. When we were in it our government always opposed moves towards greater democratic accountability on the grounds this this would undermine our own national sovereignty. The EU is only as democratic as democratically elected governments, anxious to preserve their own powers, would allow it to be. Doesn't alter what it is or our complete lack of ability as voters to alter EU policies when we were in it. The CAP for example, it was always abysmal, and the French government always vetoed efforts to reform it.
The CFP was a similar problem. That was never reformed either.
Freedom of movement of people was always fundamentally flawed and operated as a poor to rich flow.
Freedom of movement of business resulted in a rich to poor flow seeking out the cheapest workers and the lowest taxes.
It's supposed to be a level playing field but it really isn't.
It's economic Darwinism.
If all they want is unfettered capitalism, they do not need the political element, they do not need overarching regulations, and subsidy programmes and the cost to taxpayers is unwarranted.
If on the other hand they wish to create a country, they need to create a democracy with common standards of living from Dublin to Dubrovnik, and they've failed at that.
It doesn't work.
If they want to create a country, they need to create a minimum wage based on the most expensive part of the EU to live in, with a welfare state and cost of living parity across the union.
A pan EU healthcare system.
A pan EU tax pot with per capita public spending in balance for the whole entity.
They do not have that, and have no interest in going that way.
It's the only way it could work.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 24, 2023 18:30:14 GMT
Brexit is a turning into a disaster. Since Brexit there is a 75% chance my local McDonalds no longer has milkshakes and I’m left with a diet soda. I just don’t know how much longer I can survive like this. I'm down to less than a weeks supply of tinned soup and arrowroot biscuits. And you had to return from France just to get those.  |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 24, 2023 18:35:12 GMT
But can you really not see that the reason many voted for it is that they were persuaded we would be better off outside. If the opposite appears to be true as it does at the moment, more and more people will regret the decision to leave and turn on those who sold the idea to them. So it matters politically, and could eventually result in a head of steam building up for a closer association with the EU again. So the goal has not been achieved in a way that works for us. Nope. If the goal is to leave the club and you leave the club then the goal has been achieved. What ‘Brexit’ was the act of leaving the EU. I am merely point out your false claim that goal of brexit was anything more than leaving the EU. We effectively left the EU just a couple of years ago and you may have noticed that the new PM has a far different approach than the last one consequently we will not know how much benefit that we will get by leaving the EU until a few years time. If only that were true, but in order to persuade the people that leaving was good they had to sell the idea that leaving would lead to improvements. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 24, 2023 18:40:09 GMT
Nope. If the goal is to leave the club and you leave the club then the goal has been achieved. What ‘Brexit’ was the act of leaving the EU. I am merely point out your false claim that goal of brexit was anything more than leaving the EU. We effectively left the EU just a couple of years ago and you may have noticed that the new PM has a far different approach than the last one consequently we will not know how much benefit that we will get by leaving the EU until a few years time. If only that were true, but in order to persuade the people that leaving was good they had to sell the idea that leaving would lead to improvements. When has a politician ever sold something without claiming that there would be improvements? |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 24, 2023 18:48:00 GMT
Nope. If the goal is to leave the club and you leave the club then the goal has been achieved. What ‘Brexit’ was the act of leaving the EU. I am merely point out your false claim that goal of brexit was anything more than leaving the EU. We effectively left the EU just a couple of years ago and you may have noticed that the new PM has a far different approach than the last one consequently we will not know how much benefit that we will get by leaving the EU until a few years time. If only that were true, but in order to persuade the people that leaving was good they had to sell the idea that leaving would lead to improvements. It is true. What isn’t true is BS that ex remainers claim ie that leavers were all in agreement that Brexit meant instant beer and skittles. The only people who believe it are the ex remainers who seem to have convinced themselves . The goal of Brexit was to leave the EU. The goal has been reached . The next step is to make it work l |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 24, 2023 19:03:02 GMT
If only that were true, but in order to persuade the people that leaving was good they had to sell the idea that leaving would lead to improvements. When has a politician ever sold something without claiming that there would be improvements? So you agree with me. Leaving wasn't just leaving. |
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