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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 14:34:14 GMT
Finally, someone spots the true point of contention! Yes, I could have qualified the assertion. But, clearly, it would have been too much for some people here. Leave them in their dazed and confused state, I think.  So, back to basics: (a) the Single Market is good for Northern Ireland so (b) why can't it be good for the rest of the UK? It's not good for Northern Ireland. It's a colony of EU rule. Unless you believe colonialism is good. It's about Northern Ireland and the Single Market. Or Northern Ireland in the Single Market, to be precise. The relevant point of view from which to argue, therefore, is trade and economy. And in that respect, the Single Market is good for Northern Ireland AND the rest of the UK. The problem with what you are saying is that it is short on realism and long on hyperbole, i.e., the use of the emotive word colonialism. For others, its sovereignty and independence. For me, the EU's just trade and implementation of trade rules. The EU will always try to be bigger than what it really is, but the bottom line is that it is just a trade bloc and their commissioners know it. They can not redraw our territorial boundaries. They can not change our taxation system. They can't get rid of the royals and change our form of government. They can't interfere with our international relations. They can't tell us whether or not to go to war or whether to sell or not to sell arms to Saudi Arabia. I accept there is indeed a time to leave the EU. And that's when, somehow, they actually manage to implement a unified military, fiscal and monetary policies and international relations. In the meantime, all their commissioners can dream on. |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 23, 2023 14:43:43 GMT
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Post by Bentley on Mar 23, 2023 17:06:38 GMT
I wish you lefties would make your minds up. One leftie claims that objective truth exist and another leftie wheels out linguistic theory to insist that it doesn’t. Who's claiming what and who's wheeling out what? You are claiming this and the trans lobby are wheeling out that . Try to keep up.🙄 |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 23, 2023 18:09:54 GMT
Something IS either good or bad. How do you know if nobody has decided it is?. Or do you mean that you have decided it's a good thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 19:11:24 GMT
Who's claiming what and who's wheeling out what? You are claiming this and the trans lobby are wheeling out that . Try to keep up.🙄 You're very clear about the who but very cagey about the what. So. Off with it -- what exactly do you mean by "this" and by "that"? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 19:12:27 GMT
Something IS either good or bad. How do you know if nobody has decided it is?. Or do you mean that you have decided it's a good thing. Tsk!  |
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Post by buccaneer on Mar 23, 2023 20:22:39 GMT
It's not good for Northern Ireland. It's a colony of EU rule. Unless you believe colonialism is good. It's about Northern Ireland and the Single Market. Or Northern Ireland in the Single Market, to be precise. The relevant point of view from which to argue, therefore, is trade and economy. And in that respect, the Single Market is good for Northern Ireland AND the rest of the UK. The problem with what you are saying is that it is short on realism and long on hyperbole, i.e., the use of the emotive word colonialism. For others, its sovereignty and independence. For me, the EU's just trade and implementation of trade rules. The EU will always try to be bigger than what it really is, but the bottom line is that it is just a trade bloc and their commissioners know it. They can not redraw our territorial boundaries. They can not change our taxation system. They can't get rid of the royals and change our form of government. They can't interfere with our international relations. They can't tell us whether or not to go to war or whether to sell or not to sell arms to Saudi Arabia. I accept there is indeed a time to leave the EU. And that's when, somehow, they actually manage to implement a unified military, fiscal and monetary policies and international relations. In the meantime, all their commissioners can dream on. No. The relevant point first and foremost is about sovereignty and democracy and in that respect it is not good for NI to be in the SM. And the evidence suggests contrary to a remainer lead story that Northern Ireland hasn't outperformed the rest of the UK economy by virtue of being stuck in the SM. I am surprised by this. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 23, 2023 21:15:57 GMT
You are claiming this and the trans lobby are wheeling out that . Try to keep up.🙄 You're very clear about the who but very cagey about the what. So. Off with it -- what exactly do you mean by "this" and by "that" ‘ this’ is what’s being claimed and ‘that’ is what is being wheeled out. Try to Keep up no 2 .🙄 |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 23:23:53 GMT
It's about Northern Ireland and the Single Market. Or Northern Ireland in the Single Market, to be precise. The relevant point of view from which to argue, therefore, is trade and economy. And in that respect, the Single Market is good for Northern Ireland AND the rest of the UK. The problem with what you are saying is that it is short on realism and long on hyperbole, i.e., the use of the emotive word colonialism. For others, its sovereignty and independence. For me, the EU's just trade and implementation of trade rules. The EU will always try to be bigger than what it really is, but the bottom line is that it is just a trade bloc and their commissioners know it. They can not redraw our territorial boundaries. They can not change our taxation system. They can't get rid of the royals and change our form of government. They can't interfere with our international relations. They can't tell us whether or not to go to war or whether to sell or not to sell arms to Saudi Arabia. I accept there is indeed a time to leave the EU. And that's when, somehow, they actually manage to implement a unified military, fiscal and monetary policies and international relations. In the meantime, all their commissioners can dream on. No. The relevant point first and foremost is about sovereignty and democracy and in that respect it is not good for NI to be in the SM. And the evidence suggests contrary to a remainer lead story that Northern Ireland hasn't outperformed the rest of the UK economy by virtue of being stuck in the SM. I am surprised by this. The SM is fundamentally and most importantly, a trading agreement. A great economic tool that should be viewed as such. Brexiteers argue that it is an issue of sovereignty. That is, sovereignty as defined by themselves -- a definition that is more isolationist North Korea than full trading RoW. And that's where it becomes problematic for Brexit UK. The Brexiteers' definition of sovereignty is all about complete control of borders, laws and money. Nothing about effective control of the matters that will protect our interests. Paper sovereignty, that's what that definition is all about. Don't be surprised. I have always been on the side that protects British interests. Why do you think I support our membership of the European Union? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 23:25:26 GMT
You're very clear about the who but very cagey about the what. So. Off with it -- what exactly do you mean by "this" and by "that" ‘ this’ is what’s being claimed and ‘that’ is what is being wheeled out. Try to Keep up no 2 .🙄 Tsk. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 24, 2023 7:54:07 GMT
So, yeah; if the Single Market's good for Northern Ireland, then why can't it be good for England, Scotland and Wales? Because it's not good, politically, for the Tories, maybe? It's very simple. Northern Ireland is a very different country from England. A lot of factors have to be taken into account before a country signs up to an overarching FTA with a big trading bloc like the EU - especially when that FTA comes with a lot of other baggage like freedom of movement and the requirement to subjugate your courts to the jurisprudence of the EU. This is something that the fans of the EU have never understood. |
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