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Post by thomas on Mar 22, 2023 9:17:58 GMT
Yep, when faced with commonsense you have no reasonable answer to offer. none of us who question your wisdom have any common sense see 2 . Its you and your labour party group think we look to for knowledge and wisdom clearly. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 22, 2023 9:24:20 GMT
How did the 'INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL MELTDOWN' make the taxpayer end up with a £10 Billion bill for hospitals that only cost £2 Billion? Specifically what part of the 'meltdown' made the cost increase by such an amount? The mystery of the 2008 financial crash being responsible for PFI deals 1999 - 2007 in labour party la la land deepens.
I see you are having difficulty WITH dealing with the obvious. The economic plans for PFIs were destroyed when all the money in the banks disappeared in 2008. I know you are intelligent enough to understand that, so I suggest you stop avoiding the obvious. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 22, 2023 9:25:35 GMT
The mystery of the 2008 financial crash being responsible for PFI deals 1999 - 2007 in labour party la la land deepens.
I see you are having difficulty WITH dealing with the obvious. The economic plans for PFIs were destroyed when all the money in the banks disappeared in 2008. I know you are intelligent enough to understand that, so I suggest you stop avoiding the obvious.
Will you stope it?
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Post by see2 on Mar 22, 2023 9:25:50 GMT
Yep, when faced with commonsense you have no reasonable answer to offer. none of us who question your wisdom have any common sense see 2 . Its you and your labour party group think we look to for knowledge and wisdom clearly. You playing with words does not detract from the obvious point made. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 22, 2023 9:26:35 GMT
none of us who question your wisdom have any common sense see 2 . Its you and your labour party group think we look to for knowledge and wisdom clearly. You playing with words does not detract from the obvious point made.  |
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Post by see2 on Mar 22, 2023 9:28:45 GMT
I see you are having difficulty WITH dealing with the obvious. The economic plans for PFIs were destroyed when all the money in the banks disappeared in 2008. I know you are intelligent enough to understand that, so I suggest you stop avoiding the obvious.
Will you stope it?
It is not possible to debate with you while you are behaving like an idiot, So I won't waste my time trying  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 9:33:39 GMT
PFI is a concept first introduced into this country by a Conservative government, but their use did expand under the government of Tony Blair.
Someone once asked Gordon Brown if using PFI was financial recklesness, to which Gordon Brown answered "ask the people who use the new hospital whether they feel it should not have been built".
The way in which PFI Contracts work is similar to a mortgage, very few people can purchase a house outright, most use a mortgage to lend the money, and pay off the mortgage, at the end of the loan term you have something which is yours.The alternative would be "No Home"
PFI Contracts are "Off Book", meaning they do not form part of the National Debt, and instead they are paid by individual Health Trusts or Hospitals, and form part of their annual budgets.
To be honest I can see both sides of the argument - but the bottom line is that if PFI had not been used, then in many instances new hospitals or schools would not have been built.
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Post by Toreador on Mar 22, 2023 11:56:33 GMT
PFI is a concept first introduced into this country by a Conservative government, but their use did expand under the government of Tony Blair. Someone once asked Gordon Brown if using PFI was financial recklesness, to which Gordon Brown answered "ask the people who use the new hospital whether they feel it should not have been built". The way in which PFI Contracts work is similar to a mortgage, very few people can purchase a house outright, most use a mortgage to lend the money, and pay off the mortgage, at the end of the loan term you have something which is yours.The alternative would be "No Home" PFI Contracts are "Off Book", meaning they do not form part of the National Debt, and instead they are paid by individual Health Trusts or Hospitals, and form part of their annual budgets. To be honest I can see both sides of the argument - but the bottom line is that if PFI had not been used, then in many instances new hospitals or schools would not have been built.If suucessive governments had the slightest clue about running anything, we would have built those hospitals from public funds. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 22, 2023 12:58:07 GMT
The mystery of the 2008 financial crash being responsible for PFI deals 1999 - 2007 in labour party la la land deepens.
I see you are having difficulty WITH dealing with the obvious. The economic plans for PFIs were destroyed when all the money in the banks disappeared in 2008. I know you are intelligent enough to understand that, so I suggest you stop avoiding the obvious. Can you expand on this idea? - how did a few banks getting into difficulty affect the terms of the contracts that the Government had signed with the private sector?. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 22, 2023 19:55:38 GMT
I see you are having difficulty WITH dealing with the obvious. The economic plans for PFIs were destroyed when all the money in the banks disappeared in 2008. I know you are intelligent enough to understand that, so I suggest you stop avoiding the obvious. Can you expand on this idea? - how did a few banks getting into difficulty affect the terms of the contracts that the Government had signed with the private sector?. They didn't, and you must know that is a silly question to ask. it was the the disappearance of the cash flowing through the banks and the cost of saving the Banks in order to prevent a recession turning into a depression that threw all previous economic planning out of the window. As you know it took the Conservatives 9 years to reduce the deficit following the economic meltdown of 2008. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 22, 2023 20:22:16 GMT
PFI is a concept first introduced into this country by a Conservative government, but their use did expand under the government of Tony Blair. Someone once asked Gordon Brown if using PFI was financial recklesness, to which Gordon Brown answered "ask the people who use the new hospital whether they feel it should not have been built". The way in which PFI Contracts work is similar to a mortgage, very few people can purchase a house outright, most use a mortgage to lend the money, and pay off the mortgage, at the end of the loan term you have something which is yours.The alternative would be "No Home" PFI Contracts are "Off Book", meaning they do not form part of the National Debt, and instead they are paid by individual Health Trusts or Hospitals, and form part of their annual budgets. To be honest I can see both sides of the argument - but the bottom line is that if PFI had not been used, then in many instances new hospitals or schools would not have been built.If suucessive governments had the slightest clue about running anything, we would have built those hospitals from public funds. Possibly, and certainly in hindsight. But whenever did government controlled projects come in on time and on cost? (HMS Prince of Wales is an example of a government scheme.) How many fewer Schools and Hospitals would a government scheme fail to produce? When people attack the the cost of PFIs do they subtract the alternative build costs from PFI costs? Alternatively there is no guarantee that the end cost of a government scheme would not have ended up more costly than PFI costs. |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 22, 2023 21:16:03 GMT
If suucessive governments had the slightest clue about running anything, we would have built those hospitals from public funds. Possibly, and certainly in hindsight. But whenever did government controlled projects come in on time and on cost? (HMS Prince of Wales is an example of a government scheme.) How many fewer Schools and Hospitals would a government scheme fail to produce? When people attack the the cost of PFIs do they subtract the alternative build costs from PFI costs? Alternatively there is no guarantee that the end cost of a government scheme would not have ended up more costly than PFI costs. The answer to your post is covered in my first sentence.....If suucessive governments had the slightest clue about running anything. Please read more carefully.  |
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Post by thescotsman on Mar 22, 2023 21:53:34 GMT
I’m hesitant to get stuck in but one blindingly obvious point i would make is MY neck if the woods has been an awesome place to have a dry dock courtesy of the second highest tidal range on the fucking planet LITERALLY outside my back door and about thirty MILES of the deepest natural seawater inlet in the UK about two hours drive west, which was used as a naval and air base in WW2 becausebit was beyond almost all the bombers. Why the fuck they build yards to make these things in the north where natural facilities are inferior beats me ...like you I hesitate to get involved but for me the issues is even easier....these ships are the the biggest...most fantastically incredible waste of money ever....they should never have been commissioned.... |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 22, 2023 22:14:31 GMT
Can you expand on this idea? - how did a few banks getting into difficulty affect the terms of the contracts that the Government had signed with the private sector?. They didn't, and you must know that is a silly question to ask. it was the the disappearance of the cash flowing through the banks and the cost of saving the Banks in order to prevent a recession turning into a depression that threw all previous economic planning out of the window. As you know it took the Conservatives 9 years to reduce the deficit following the economic meltdown of 2008. Sorry but what has that to do with PFI contracts?. The PFI contract that was highlighted showed that the cost for a £2 hospital ended up being £10 Billion. What specifically happened during the financial crisis that made a contract balloon in the way you suggest? |
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Post by see2 on Mar 26, 2023 16:21:21 GMT
They didn't, and you must know that is a silly question to ask. it was the the disappearance of the cash flowing through the banks and the cost of saving the Banks in order to prevent a recession turning into a depression that threw all previous economic planning out of the window. As you know it took the Conservatives 9 years to reduce the deficit following the economic meltdown of 2008. Sorry but what has that to do with PFI contracts?. The PFI contract that was highlighted showed that the cost for a £2 hospital ended up being £10 Billion. What specifically happened during the financial crisis that made a contract balloon in the way you suggest? Ask your Tory governments, they reduced the annual average funding of the NHS from 3.7% to around 1.5%. But the NHS still had to pay for the PFI builds. |
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