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Post by see2 on Feb 28, 2023 10:20:38 GMT
Representative Democracy i.e. collective gathering of information and debating that information is so superior to following the unreliable media biased whim of public opinion. The referendum was forced upon the public, so it became necessary for people to make a choice. But as explained over Thatcher the media has far too much unelected power and influence over people. Exacerbated by dishonest, loud mouthed and immature people like Farage. Remember Farage's childish attack on Van Rompuy? Priceless,forced on the people? No it took over four decades to win the right to vote,you of course forget your hero Blair’s promise to consult which he quietly shelved or when quoting Thatcher and the media you ignore his dishonest manipulation of the truth,loud mouth? sadly Blair hasn’t shut his since leaving office. "Four decades" then forced on the people with no alternative other than to abstain. Do try and think before you post. Blair is a deviation as you struggle to avoid the reality. The truth about Thatcher is accurate, sold off our oil, gas and electricity and more, apparently bought by companies in other countries, up to 4million unemployed. And the fact that it was left to her own Party to get rid of her. That's what I call a seriously misguided electorate who clearly didn't understand just how bad she was. Blair did say he would concede to a referendum on the EU but he gave no date and he said it would only take place after the issue had been debated in parliament. Sadly the never ending dishonest opinionated attacks on Blair never seem to stop. |
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Post by wapentake on Feb 28, 2023 10:29:21 GMT
Priceless,forced on the people? No it took over four decades to win the right to vote,you of course forget your hero Blair’s promise to consult which he quietly shelved or when quoting Thatcher and the media you ignore his dishonest manipulation of the truth,loud mouth? sadly Blair hasn’t shut his since leaving office. "Four decades" then forced on the people with no alternative other than to abstain. Do try and think before you post. Blair is a deviation as you struggle to avoid the reality. The truth about Thatcher is accurate, sold off our oil, gas and electricity and more, apparently bought by companies in other countries, up to 4million unemployed. And the fact that it was left to her own Party to get rid of her. That's what I call a seriously misguided electorate who clearly didn't understand just how bad she was. Blair did say he would concede to a referendum on the EU but he gave no date and he said it would only take place after the issue had been debated in parliament. Sadly the never ending dishonest opinionated attacks on Blair never seem to stop. And sadly you don’t see you quoting Thatcher as a deviation,I don’t dispute what Thatcher did was wrong you are blind to his misdeeds and as you quote others your failure to acknowledge his exposes your dishonesty. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 28, 2023 10:30:28 GMT
Indeed, it was published just yesterday, and far more informed people than you or I have suggested we wait until lawyers have studied it's implications and the small print before making judgment one way or another. David Davis was interviewed on Talk TV this morning. He sounded less than positive, Julia Hartley-Brewer put it to him that 1,700 EU laws had been scrapped, he gave a wry smile and said, yes we'll have to have a look at that. Just for info; just listened to someone called John Coulter (On GB News) who I've never heard of but is an Irish journalist in Lisbon Northern Ireland, and he was extremely scathing of the Windsor Framework. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 28, 2023 10:37:54 GMT
Either Sunak fulfills the Brexit' promise or Labour will win the next GE. 17,000,000 voters who invested heavily in politics at the Referendum are watching closely. ........The Devil will be in the detail....Remember the Maastricht/Lisbon Treaties. This from the Telegraph dated 19th April 2004.....QUOTE...Just a 'tidying-up exercise' or a drastic loss of sovereignty?...UNQUOTE. Lisbon Treaty was rejected by several countries...incl' the UK. The told by the EUSSR to go back and get it ratified by changing aspects of it. All that happened was a re-wording, wrapped up in solid "legalise" to confuse the general Public, giving the impression that it had been altered, when in fact in hadn't, it still gave ever more control over to Brussels.......This will be no different, they will just dress it up in a NEW COAT!
Rishi Sunak 'has won big concessions from the EUSSR and new deal will 'finish the job and ensure Brexit works', PM claims as he is poised to sign agreement with Brussels - despite warnings it could spark Tory civil war
EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen to travel to the UK on Monday
She is set to shake hands with Rishi Sunak on post-Brexit trading arrangements
The meeting over Northern Ireland trade agreements will take place in Windsor
On the face of it I reckon that's what we're supposed to think. But in due course we may discover the so called 'Windsor Framework' isn't all it's cracked up to be. The biggest red flag for me so far is the fact that hard line remainiacs in the Labour party are hailing it as a great deal. Also, the EU have always absolutely insisted that any renegotiation of the NI Protocol was impossible, they have been consistent on this point. Suddenly it's all but torn up, apparently just 2% of the protocol is incorporated into the Windsor Framework, and we're told that 1,700 EU laws have been scrapped. This sounds to me like a deal that is designed to look good to the electorate. The fact is we don't know what's been agreed behind the scenes. As Sir John Redwood said, lets have a look at the small print. Indeed, this morning I listened to David Davis being interviewed, it was put to him that 1,700 EU laws had been scrapped. He smiled and said; yes, we'll have to have a look at that. The fact is when people in particular DUP lawyers, have had an opportunity to study the detail, I think we may find the deal is not quite as great for the UK or NI after all. Lets not forget, the EU mantra has always been, the UK must be punished for Brexit. Why would the EU suddenly change their mind? And while I'm here, why was Ursula von der Leyen given a royal audience? As far as I'm aware a royal audience is a privilage extended to heads of state, not unelected euro bureaucrats. No I don't mate. It will all be tied up in gobbledegook that even the lawyers won't understand. And God only knows why our new king got involved. |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 28, 2023 10:54:14 GMT
The pound was overvalued and had ever been since the EU committed to a common currency. It was set at too high a level that was welcomed by Germany, France and a few others.  So now we're onto page 2 of the Brexiters book of false excuses for the harm they've done How about discussing what I said, was the £ overvalued? |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 28, 2023 10:57:03 GMT
Priceless,forced on the people? No it took over four decades to win the right to vote,you of course forget your hero Blair’s promise to consult which he quietly shelved or when quoting Thatcher and the media you ignore his dishonest manipulation of the truth,loud mouth? sadly Blair hasn’t shut his since leaving office. "Four decades" then forced on the people with no alternative other than to abstain. Do try and think before you post. Blair is a deviation as you struggle to avoid the reality. The truth about Thatcher is accurate, sold off our oil, gas and electricity and more, apparently bought by companies in other countries, up to 4million unemployed. And the fact that it was left to her own Party to get rid of her. That's what I call a seriously misguided electorate who clearly didn't understand just how bad she was. Blair did say he would concede to a referendum on the EU but he gave no date and he said it would only take place after the issue had been debated in parliament. Sadly the never ending dishonest opinionated attacks on Blair never seem to stop. Presumably you thought the '75 referendum was OK? |
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Post by see2 on Feb 28, 2023 11:22:25 GMT
"Four decades" then forced on the people with no alternative other than to abstain. Do try and think before you post. Blair is a deviation as you struggle to avoid the reality. The truth about Thatcher is accurate, sold off our oil, gas and electricity and more, apparently bought by companies in other countries, up to 4million unemployed. And the fact that it was left to her own Party to get rid of her. That's what I call a seriously misguided electorate who clearly didn't understand just how bad she was. Blair did say he would concede to a referendum on the EU but he gave no date and he said it would only take place after the issue had been debated in parliament. Sadly the never ending dishonest opinionated attacks on Blair never seem to stop. And sadly you don’t see you quoting Thatcher as a deviation,I don’t dispute what Thatcher did was wrong you are blind to his misdeeds and as you quote others your failure to acknowledge his exposes your dishonesty. I gave Thatcher as an example of the way the electorate can be easily led, not as a deviation. The one claim you offered about Blair that was to do with referendum, I answered and accepted as the truth. I make a point of pointing out false claims, insinuations and over opinionated opinions against Blair. If I am ever proved to have been mistaken in my posts over Blair I readily and willingly accept the proof. There would be nothing to be gained in doing otherwise. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 28, 2023 11:30:40 GMT
"Four decades" then forced on the people with no alternative other than to abstain. Do try and think before you post. Blair is a deviation as you struggle to avoid the reality. The truth about Thatcher is accurate, sold off our oil, gas and electricity and more, apparently bought by companies in other countries, up to 4million unemployed. And the fact that it was left to her own Party to get rid of her. That's what I call a seriously misguided electorate who clearly didn't understand just how bad she was. Blair did say he would concede to a referendum on the EU but he gave no date and he said it would only take place after the issue had been debated in parliament. Sadly the never ending dishonest opinionated attacks on Blair never seem to stop. Presumably you thought the '75 referendum was OK? I never gave it much thought at that time, though it seemed much more of a novelty than a necessity. I have more recently given Referendums some thought and concluded that in this country where the media have far too much unelected influence on the public, and the electorate appear to be too easily led, that future Referenda should be avoided like the plague. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 28, 2023 11:32:30 GMT
Priceless,forced on the people? No it took over four decades to win the right to vote,you of course forget your hero Blair’s promise to consult which he quietly shelved or when quoting Thatcher and the media you ignore his dishonest manipulation of the truth,loud mouth? sadly Blair hasn’t shut his since leaving office. "Four decades" then forced on the people with no alternative other than to abstain. Do try and think before you post. Blair is a deviation as you struggle to avoid the reality. The truth about Thatcher is accurate, sold off our oil, gas and electricity and more, apparently bought by companies in other countries, up to 4million unemployed. And the fact that it was left to her own Party to get rid of her. That's what I call a seriously misguided electorate who clearly didn't understand just how bad she was. Blair did say he would concede to a referendum on the EU but he gave no date and he said it would only take place after the issue had been debated in parliament. Sadly the never ending dishonest opinionated attacks on Blair never seem to stop. Well the alternative to Thatcher was a Labour Party who were intent on taking us out of the EU... |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 28, 2023 12:14:39 GMT
Very few people support the one vote democracy where the public are denied the right to change their minds. As far as I can see a system where you get one vote and are then stuck with the result whatever happens is not called democracy. Of course ut is....We all know the remnants like the EUSSR's idea of multiple referendums until they get the results they want. I wonder if you would still hold that view if the remain side had won? Except that only happened in Nigels wet dreams. |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 28, 2023 12:15:53 GMT
Yes that's the similar, are you happy to repeat that? Care to spell out your proposals to overturn the 2016 result. Yes forty one years ok. Yes if you would even consider the idea. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 28, 2023 12:16:35 GMT
Of course ut is....We all know the remnants like the EUSSR's idea of multiple referendums until they get the results they want. I wonder if you would still hold that view if the remain side had won? Except that only happened in Nigels wet dreams. Far from it. How many were carried out in Ireland untill the EUSSR got their way? |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 28, 2023 12:22:50 GMT
Presumably you thought the '75 referendum was OK? I never gave it much thought at that time, though it seemed much more of a novelty than a necessity. I have more recently given Referendums some thought and concluded that in this country where the media have far too much unelected influence on the public, and the electorate appear to be too easily led, that future Referenda should be avoided like the plague. So why was the remain camp substantially leading in opinion polls. The '75 referendum was held for much the same reason as the 2016 referendum, to settle differences within the party. The '75 referendum was advertised in the same way as the 2016 event in that whatever the decision, the government would enact it. In both cases that is what happened and democracy was served.   |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 28, 2023 12:29:42 GMT
Except that only happened in Nigels wet dreams. Far from it. How many were carried out in Ireland untill the EUSSR got their way? ....and for the record, following the rejection of the Lisbon Treaty, the lying gobshite Brian Cowen publically declared he would not ask the Irish people to vote again.....that was until the EU got him in a corner. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 28, 2023 13:17:25 GMT
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