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Post by see2 on Feb 26, 2023 11:41:21 GMT
The Tory party would claim that they champion Moral Capitalism and Social justice . I don’t believe for a minute that the Labour party has been purged of extreme left wing thinkers any more than you might believe that the Tories have been purged of extreme right wing thinkers . And neither does anyone else with a bit of common sense mate. Starmer is just a place holder for all the closet corbynites. Starmer appears to be closer to New Labour than to Hard Left Labour. That Corbyn and his hard lefties were absent in all but name under New Labour, indicates that they will do no better under Starmer. That's the conclusion reached by anyone with a bit of common sense. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 26, 2023 11:45:27 GMT
So Starmer's big idea is to turn the UK into Wales - yep that will work.. As that's an example of your stunted logic its no wonder you are stuck with the Righties in politics. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Feb 26, 2023 11:46:58 GMT
And neither does anyone else with a bit of common sense mate. Starmer is just a place holder for all the closet corbynites. Starmer appears to be closer to New Labour than to Hard Left Labour. That Corbyn and his hard lefties were absent in all but name under New Labour, indicates that they will do no better under Starmer. That's the conclusion reached by anyone with a bit of common sense. Hard left Rayner can't wait to backstab Starmer at the first chance, if Starmer wins the next GE, I can guarantee Rayner will start a coup to get him ousted, then she will take charge, and then we are well and truly fucked. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 26, 2023 11:56:08 GMT
Why we voted for Jeremy Corbyn – all 12 million of us Sonia Sodha presumes that Labour’s activists and members are two separate entities (“Starmer was right to exile Corbyn. Labour has a duty to voters, not rebellious members”, Comment). She ignores the fact that under Jeremy Corbyn thousands of previously non-active voters became both party members and activists, many, including myself, for the first time. Before Corbyn, I was neither a voter, nor a member, nor an activist.
Sodha writes about ejecting Corbyn as if it were a sign of democracy, yet what could be less democratic than denying the voters of Islington North their choice of Labour MP – the much respected and hard-working Corbyn, who has served that constituency very well for decades? Keir Starmer clearly feels threatened by the mere presence of Corbyn on the backbenches. Why? Corbyn is correct to point to the one thing that, according to Starmer, we aren’t supposed to talk about: Palestine. But it’s more than that. Starmer represents preservation of the status quo, whereas Corbyn represents change. Some of us are more than ready for change and Sodha cannot ignore the fact that 12 million of us voted for that.
Prevailing thoughts and experience meant that 12 million voters got it wrong. Leaving what appeared to be a winnable election in the hands of the Tories once again, with the Labour party continuing to polish the opposition benches. And still he didn't get the message. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 26, 2023 11:58:41 GMT
Starmer appears to be closer to New Labour than to Hard Left Labour. That Corbyn and his hard lefties were absent in all but name under New Labour, indicates that they will do no better under Starmer. That's the conclusion reached by anyone with a bit of common sense. Hard left Rayner can't wait to backstab Starmer at the first chance, if Starmer wins the next GE, I can guarantee Rayner will start a coup to get him ousted, then she will take charge, and then we are well and truly fucked. Time will tell but experience suggests you are wrong, as in Leftie John Prescott not stabbing Blair in the back. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Feb 26, 2023 12:10:45 GMT
Hard left Rayner can't wait to backstab Starmer at the first chance, if Starmer wins the next GE, I can guarantee Rayner will start a coup to get him ousted, then she will take charge, and then we are well and truly fucked. Time will tell but experience suggests you are wrong, as in Leftie John Prescott not stabbing Blair in the back. I'm not wrong, Rayner is biding her time, she's eventually realised that the least she says the better, as the song goes 'you say it best, when you say nothing at all'.
Poor old Starmer will take them to victory, only to be the Caesar of politics.
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Post by see2 on Feb 26, 2023 12:22:57 GMT
Time will tell but experience suggests you are wrong, as in Leftie John Prescott not stabbing Blair in the back. I'm not wrong, Rayner is biding her time, she's eventually realised that the least she says the better, as the song goes 'you say it best, when you say nothing at all'.
Poor old Starmer will take them to victory, only to be the Caesar of politics.
You already have my answer to your opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 19:13:34 GMT
Why we voted for Jeremy Corbyn – all 12 million of us Sonia Sodha presumes that Labour’s activists and members are two separate entities (“Starmer was right to exile Corbyn. Labour has a duty to voters, not rebellious members”, Comment). She ignores the fact that under Jeremy Corbyn thousands of previously non-active voters became both party members and activists, many, including myself, for the first time. Before Corbyn, I was neither a voter, nor a member, nor an activist.
Sodha writes about ejecting Corbyn as if it were a sign of democracy, yet what could be less democratic than denying the voters of Islington North their choice of Labour MP – the much respected and hard-working Corbyn, who has served that constituency very well for decades? Keir Starmer clearly feels threatened by the mere presence of Corbyn on the backbenches. Why? Corbyn is correct to point to the one thing that, according to Starmer, we aren’t supposed to talk about: Palestine. But it’s more than that. Starmer represents preservation of the status quo, whereas Corbyn represents change. Some of us are more than ready for change and Sodha cannot ignore the fact that 12 million of us voted for that.
Prevailing thoughts and experience meant that 12 million voters got it wrong. Leaving what appeared to be a winnable election in the hands of the Tories once again, with the Labour party continuing to polish the opposition benches. And still he didn't get the message. Were it not for those 12 million voters you so obviously hold in contempt, your precious Labour party would have ceased to exist. But I suppose you got it right by voting for the Tories led by Boris Johnson did you? You are typical of the usual treacherous Blairite. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 26, 2023 19:22:39 GMT
Labour left breaks with Jeremy Corbyn over sending weapons to Ukraine Story by Toby Helm Political editor • 10h ago Senior Labour MPs on the left of the party are putting themselves at odds with former leader Jeremy Corbyn over the war in Ukraine by calling on the Ministry of Defence to do more to arm Kyiv against the Russians.
This weekend the MP for Norwich South, Clive Lewis, a former territorial army officer and shadow defence secretary under Corbyn, questioned why the MoD was selling used Apache helicopters on the open market rather than giving them to the Ukrainians “in their hour of need”. “Given that we have provided export licences for weapons to regimes with poor human rights records, do we not have an obligation to provide Ukraine with the military equipment it needs to defend its democracy?” Lewis asked. Related:Keir Starmer visits Kyiv to emphasise Labour’s backing for Ukraine His intervention comes days after John McDonnell, former shadow chancellor and a close political ally of Corbyn, also wrote in support of arming Ukraine, arguing that while he respected the pacifist position, he felt it would not deliver peace but rather risk defeat for Kyiv by Vladimir Putin’s forces. “What is certain is that a refusal to provide the weapons the Ukrainians need ... means that the chances of the Russian invasion succeeding are significantly increased,” McDonnell wrote in an article on Labour Hub website, marking a year since the Russian invasion. link |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 19:29:49 GMT
The problem with the Labour Party Bentley, is that it has in the past been too tolerant and forgiving In the 1970s and 1980s it was "Militant" who ruined Labours chances, but people like John Smith, Neil Kinnock and Tony Blair dealt with them, and then Labour had its huge victory in 1997. But, they came back again, this time in large numbers, entering the party in 2015 to ensure Corbyn was elected as leader, and as they say ... the rest is history, a colossal defeat in 2019. Its my view that this time the party has to cease been tolerant ... there is no place for such people in a modern progressive, moderate political party with aspirations of becoming the governing party. The priorities for ordinary people are the cost of living, jobs, public services, the NHS and crime ... NOT "Stop The War" or Palestine or politics of envy or politics driven by dogma instead of common sense. Let the old fashioned and outdated orthodox Socialists join forces with the SWP or Arthur Scargills SLP and form a Left Wing alternative to Labour. But I can assure you that the far left have lost control of every area of the party now, many have left the party and their pressure group "Momentum" barely exists now. The problem with people like you is that you utterly dishonestly equate former members like me who believed in the 2017 manifesto, and aspired to something akin to the Nordic model as extremist revolutionary socialists who belong in the SWP which is utter shit. I no more belong in the SWP than you do in the frigging BNP. And you are an insult to reality when you try to pretend otherwise. The New Orwellian reality as portrayed by Blairites, moderately social democratic policies equated with Trotskyism or Marxism-Leninism, a modest move in the direction of the Nordic model supposedly an example of left wing extremism. All this agenda-driven, deliberately dishonest labelling is designed to cement in place the current status quo by portraying any challenge to it - however moderate - as somehow extremist. You can shove your SWP and Scargill's lot where the sun don't shine. Stop telling lies about those of us who so recently campaigned enthusiastically for your party when it wanted moderate change for the many instead of the few. You offer no change at all. Your main selling point being nothing more than being a bit less crap than the Tories. How inspiring. And led by a proven liar like Blair without the charisma, Sir Wet Lettuce |
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Post by see2 on Feb 26, 2023 19:38:37 GMT
The Labour Party can do without the far Left ... and indeed the party is doing extremely well without them, so stay away, go and join Arthur Scargills Socialist Labour Party or the Socialist Workers Party, and leave mainstream political parties to get on with seriuous business. The majority of the so called "working class" are not interested in Stop The War, CND, Palestine, Bring Down The Monarchy or negotiating with terrorists. Most of the far Left have now gone from the Labour Party, some still remain, but their voice is now small, their parasitic group "Momentum" is almost bankrupt, and the party is now what it should be ... A progressive, Left of centre political party which champions Moral Capitalism and Social Justice. It is a party led by a proven liar with no principles they will not sell in pursuit of power. They offer nothing but a slightly nicer version of the same old bullshit. If they do well it is only because of FPTP and the fact that the Tories are being so crap. Be careful what you wish for. If you expect meaningful change you might as well rather bark at the moon than vote Labour for all the good it will do. Mark my words. Labour is not going to be all that better and will provide it's own governmental disasters. Clearly you are still feeling bitter at being left to chunner in your hard-left get nowhere position. Regardless of how Labour do in the next election NL proved that the people will elect a social minded capitalist concerned Labour party more willingly than for a hard left socialist minded Labour party. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 19:41:39 GMT
It is a party led by a proven liar with no principles they will not sell in pursuit of power. They offer nothing but a slightly nicer version of the same old bullshit. If they do well it is only because of FPTP and the fact that the Tories are being so crap. Be careful what you wish for. If you expect meaningful change you might as well rather bark at the moon than vote Labour for all the good it will do. Mark my words. Labour is not going to be all that better and will provide it's own governmental disasters. Clearly you are still feeling bitter at being left to chunner in your hard-left get nowhere position. Regardless of how Labour do in the next election NL proved that the people will elect a social minded capitalist concerned Labour party more willingly than for a hard left socialist minded Labour party. The same bullshit mislabelling me as hard left. If you want an intelligent discussion, quit the agenda-driven mislabelling. I am not hard anything. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 26, 2023 19:46:52 GMT
Prevailing thoughts and experience meant that 12 million voters got it wrong. Leaving what appeared to be a winnable election in the hands of the Tories once again, with the Labour party continuing to polish the opposition benches. And still he didn't get the message. Were it not for those 12 million voters you so obviously hold in contempt, your precious Labour party would have ceased to exist. But I suppose you got it right by voting for the Tories led by Boris Johnson did you? You are typical of the usual treacherous Blairite. You are typically spouting nonsense. Your lot lost, despite having the backing of Momentum and the Magic Wand Brigade, a winnable election, that is the point you cannot get around. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 19:47:48 GMT
srb7677
I note with interest that Jeremy Corbyn is still insisting that the West, the EU, the Baltic nations, NATO should stop sending armaments to Ukraine in order for Ukraine to defend itself. He is now actually at odds with Left wing Labour MPs including John McDonald.
This is the same Jeremy Corbyn who said it was wrong to have dropped a bomb onto Jihadi John, and wrong to take out Osama Bin Laden, execute him, then drop his body into the ocean.
The same Jeremy Corbyn who believes that the UK should enter into negotiations with Argentina over the Falkland Island, yet he promotes the concept of "Self Determination". ?
How would you relate Mr Corbyn's views with those of the so called "working class" ( the majority of them ), who are generally patriotic, mostly supportive of The Monarchy, support our armed forces, and have little or no time for pacifists, Stop The War or CND.
He is and always was out of touch with the "working class" which is why so many of them reluctantly voted Tory in 2019, I still cannot believe that Hartlepool, Blyth or Redcar now have Tory MPs, I sometimes wonder what Mo Mowlam would think.
Evidence speaks for itself, the Labour Party has not seen such commanding leads in the polls since Tony Blair was leader, and the main task is not to persuade traditional Labour voters, but to persuade the Floaters, and the disgruntled Tories who MIGHT vote Labour.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 26, 2023 19:49:10 GMT
Srb is not a leftie. Iirc he didn't even vote Labour in the last election .
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