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Post by ratcliff on Feb 25, 2023 16:16:56 GMT
Just a point that you missed out. You claim that 30 of the last 40 years was a conservative administration But 13 of the past 40 years returned a labour administration and the 5 years 2010 - 15 was a coalition government Maths obviously was not your strong subject at school |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 25, 2023 16:35:47 GMT
Wapentake. I'll take this part of you post first. __"No I’m not too young I’m well aware of who privatised what and well aware who continued that policy". Energy security means long term plans to safeguard our energy supplies clearly Blair and other administrations did nothing toward that. A govts duty is first and foremost to the people of this country Blair’s adventures with Bush only endangered us. He continued with his disastrous pfi initiatives and privatisation by the back door. As you have probs with some internet links"__ __________________________________________ Your first mistake is to miss what New Labour stood for which was 'Social Minded Capitalism'. When Putin became President of Russia he convinced his backers in Russia that he was committed to democracy, which allowed European countries, including Blair/UK to feel safe in buying energy from Russia. Nearly 20 years later that proved to be a mistake. IF Thatcher had not privatised our oil, gas etc. which are now owned by other countries, this country would be in a far better position. The invasion of Iraq was a continuation of the First Gulf war it was justified by the UN. America and the UK were not free of 'Gulf war 1' because they had to police No Fly Zones over Iraq to stop Iraq bombing the Kurds in the north and bombing Kuwaitis in the south. PFIs were akin to Hospitals and schools taken on a 25/30 year mortgage agreement. NL inherited a situation where both the NHS and the majority of State Education had been run down. Some of the hospitals in the NHS were built before the WWII. New hospitals were a necessity. The cost of PFIs are shown ignoring the costs of necessary buildings built under different agreements. Apart from the initial horlix made of the early PFIs under NL which had to be renegotiated, the rest were built on time and on cost. When did we last see a plan by any government bring in projects on time and on costs? To get a true cost of PFIs the cost of building the needed buildings by any other means need to subtracted from PFI cost, that way any extra costs under PFIs could be aimed at NL. The fact that PFI builds are now in financial trouble is at the very least partly due to the International Financial Meltdown that threw previous financial plans out of the window. What a pity Labour's PFI turned out to be a financial disaster for the NHS and the country. And New Labour had the reputation for announcing policies and when they didn't happen, lo and behold, months later they'd be announcing the very same things as if they were brilliant new ideas. |
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Post by wapentake on Feb 25, 2023 16:50:30 GMT
I made no mistakes at all,Blair promised much and delivered little.First gulf war was justified by our own self interest but no noble cause,Gulf two was the determination of Bush junior to finish Daddy’s job assisted by Blair in a bid to big himself up on the world stage fill his wallet and along the way expose us to the danger of the jihadi nutters who saddam had under his thumb they jointly caused untold and unnecessary deaths and turmoil which went on to cause even more with him pushing the Arab spring instead of leaving those countries and culture to settle their affairs in their own good time. Mission accomplished,yeah if the aim was to promote jihadists and cause chaos,here’s Blair promoting it all and I guess you hate Fox News but he brought a tear to their eye. Then onto Middle East peace envoy and more,Blair is his own self made vanity project for his institution for global change chaos the best he could do is to quietly retire in to the oblivion he deserves though I guess he and his mate Bush deserved a day at the International criminal court which though was never going to happen. Lastly and no less culpable than other administrations he failed to plan and secure our energy needs. You claim, to start with, "to have made no mistakes" while passing your opinion on about Blair as if they were facts, that may not be the same as telling lies, but it comes pretty close to it. The continuation of 'Gulf war 1' was every bit as justifiable as the war which it was a continuation of. Plenty of people have the same opinion as yourself, but that does not turn opinions into facts. Saddam Hussein could quite easily have avoided the 2003 invasion, all he had to do was to fully comply with UN Res. 1441. People like yourself need to ask themselves why Saddam repeatedly avoided complying with the Ceasefire agreement. This is the act of a man who for 12 years refused to comply with the Ceasefire agreement of 1991 and who you said had control of the people. "Hussein launched chemical attacks against 40 Kurdish villages and thousands of innocent civilians in 1987-88, using them as testing grounds. The worst of these attacks devastated the city of Halabja on March 16, 1988. 5,000 civilians, many of them women, children, and the elderly, died within hours of the attack. 10,000 more were blinded". Same controlling individual was still in control of Iraq and still refusing to fully comply in March of 2003. Your determination for blaming Blair for the Arab Spring without evidence is just more of your opinion. The only time Blair got involved in the Arab Spring was in Libya when a coalition tried to stop Gaddafi shooting his own people who were demonstrating him. The coalition was backed by the UN and The Arab League. AFAIA that was the only time Blair got involved in the Arab Spring. I suspect the outcome of the experience is why he played no further part in any Arab Spring movement. You appear to have picked up a lot of opinions, but very few facts. Edit addition. I have no interest in any opinion passed by Fox News. Funnily Blair had great interest in the Americans opinions of him,you rely on your opinions which you convert in to facts. Did Saddam have WMO’s? That’ll be a no,is this country safer after his adventure? That’ll be another no Is the Middle East in a worse place because of his war,that’ll be a yes. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 25, 2023 17:05:38 GMT
Just a point that you missed out. You claim that 30 of the last 40 years was a conservative administration But 13 of the past 40 years returned a labour administration and the 5 years 2010 - 15 was a coalition government Maths obviously was not your strong subject at school No, I didn't claim that 30 of the last 40 years was under a Conservative government, I posted that " around 30 of the last 40 years were under the Tories". Lazy maths maybe but not wrong. Comprehension not your strong subject at school? Thatcher privatised Gas in 1986, along with Oil and the 12 Electricity companies in 1990. The Coalition was a Tory dominated coalition, so don't be looking for any excuses for the Tories. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 25, 2023 17:16:31 GMT
Wapentake. I'll take this part of you post first. __"No I’m not too young I’m well aware of who privatised what and well aware who continued that policy". Energy security means long term plans to safeguard our energy supplies clearly Blair and other administrations did nothing toward that. A govts duty is first and foremost to the people of this country Blair’s adventures with Bush only endangered us. He continued with his disastrous pfi initiatives and privatisation by the back door. As you have probs with some internet links"__ __________________________________________ Your first mistake is to miss what New Labour stood for which was 'Social Minded Capitalism'. When Putin became President of Russia he convinced his backers in Russia that he was committed to democracy, which allowed European countries, including Blair/UK to feel safe in buying energy from Russia. Nearly 20 years later that proved to be a mistake. IF Thatcher had not privatised our oil, gas etc. which are now owned by other countries, this country would be in a far better position. The invasion of Iraq was a continuation of the First Gulf war it was justified by the UN. America and the UK were not free of 'Gulf war 1' because they had to police No Fly Zones over Iraq to stop Iraq bombing the Kurds in the north and bombing Kuwaitis in the south. PFIs were akin to Hospitals and schools taken on a 25/30 year mortgage agreement. NL inherited a situation where both the NHS and the majority of State Education had been run down. Some of the hospitals in the NHS were built before the WWII. New hospitals were a necessity. The cost of PFIs are shown ignoring the costs of necessary buildings built under different agreements. Apart from the initial horlix made of the early PFIs under NL which had to be renegotiated, the rest were built on time and on cost. When did we last see a plan by any government bring in projects on time and on costs? To get a true cost of PFIs the cost of building the needed buildings by any other means need to subtracted from PFI cost, that way any extra costs under PFIs could be aimed at NL. The fact that PFI builds are now in financial trouble is at the very least partly due to the International Financial Meltdown that threw previous financial plans out of the window. What a pity Labour's PFI turned out to be a financial disaster for the NHS and the country. And New Labour had the reputation for announcing policies and when they didn't happen, lo and behold, months later they'd be announcing the very same things as if they were brilliant new ideas. The absolute greatest pity is that NL were in office when the international financial meltdown happened. It gave an unmissable opportunity for the Tory propaganda machine with its innate dishonesty and its all too often subtle insinuated lies to jump in. The country lost out to insinuated lies and distortions of the truth. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 25, 2023 17:20:47 GMT
Privatising Gas, Electricity and Telecommunications resulted in a far better service .
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Post by ratcliff on Feb 25, 2023 17:26:17 GMT
You claim that 30 of the last 40 years was a conservative administration But 13 of the past 40 years returned a labour administration and the 5 years 2010 - 15 was a coalition government Maths obviously was not your strong subject at school No, I didn't claim that 30 of the last 40 years was under a Conservative government, I posted that " around 30 of the last 40 years were under the Tories". Lazy maths maybe but not wrong. Comprehension not your strong subject at school? Thatcher privatised Gas in 1986, along with Oil and the 12 Electricity companies in 1990. The Coalition was a Tory dominated coalition, so don't be looking for any excuses for the Tories. 13 + 5 = 18 years non conservative administration 40 - 18 = 22 years conservative administration 'Around' 30 is not within any margin of error of ''around'' estimation It's blatantly wrong Or To make it even simpler to compensate for your apparent complete lack of mathematical ability In the past 40 years 55% of governments were Conservative administrations 45% of governments were not Conservative administrations |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 25, 2023 17:58:47 GMT
Privatising Gas, Electricity and Telecommunications resulted in a far better service . Privatising the utilities was wrong, imo. But flogging them off to any foreign company who wanted to make a fast buck was criminal. During the 1980's & 90's many countries went through a programme of privatisation but many didn't sell their utilities because they were considered to be strategically important industries. Governments who did flog off utilities legislated to ensure they could not be sold to foreign companies. On the other hand, in the UK the Tory government sold absolutely anything to anyone, and in some cases well below stock market valuation. This resulted in shareholders laughing all the way to the bank, and the consumer picking up the tab. |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 25, 2023 18:14:27 GMT
Privatising Gas, Electricity and Telecommunications resulted in a far better service . Privatising the utilities was wrong, imo. But flogging them off to any foreign company who wanted to make a fast buck was criminal. During the 1980's & 90's many countries went through a programme of privatisation but many didn't sell their utilities because they were considered to be strategically important industries. Governments who did flog off utilities legislated to ensure they could not be sold to foreign companies. On the other hand, in the UK the Tory government sold absolutely anything to anyone, and in some cases well below stock market valuation. This resulted in shareholders laughing all the way to the bank, and the consumer picking up the tab. I think that under EU rules we had no option. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 25, 2023 18:18:34 GMT
Privatising the utilities was wrong, imo. But flogging them off to any foreign company who wanted to make a fast buck was criminal. During the 1980's & 90's many countries went through a programme of privatisation but many didn't sell their utilities because they were considered to be strategically important industries. Governments who did flog off utilities legislated to ensure they could not be sold to foreign companies. On the other hand, in the UK the Tory government sold absolutely anything to anyone, and in some cases well below stock market valuation. This resulted in shareholders laughing all the way to the bank, and the consumer picking up the tab. I think that under EU rules we had no option. We weren't handed to the EU until 1992. By that time most of the damage had been done. |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 25, 2023 18:22:45 GMT
I think that under EU rules we had no option. We weren't handed to the EU until 1992. By that time most of the damage had been done. OK, the EEC. |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 25, 2023 18:28:08 GMT
We don't need dedicated ID cards, we already have passports photo driving licence cards, proof of age standards scheme cards.
We've enough ID info in the hands of the state already.
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Post by see2 on Feb 25, 2023 18:39:24 GMT
Privatising Gas, Electricity and Telecommunications resulted in a far better service . Cable & wireless i.e. telecommunications won the 'Queens Award to industry' in IIRC 1978/79. It was the Crown Jules of the nationalised industries. Not if you consider that a big part of profits go to other countries, as they are now owned by foreign countries, and as I recall, some as part of nationalised industrial companies in other countries. How about that for Irony? |
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Post by see2 on Feb 25, 2023 18:53:09 GMT
No, I didn't claim that 30 of the last 40 years was under a Conservative government, I posted that " around 30 of the last 40 years were under the Tories". Lazy maths maybe but not wrong. Comprehension not your strong subject at school? Thatcher privatised Gas in 1986, along with Oil and the 12 Electricity companies in 1990. The Coalition was a Tory dominated coalition, so don't be looking for any excuses for the Tories. 40 - 18 = 22 years conservative administration 'Around' 30 is not within any margin of error of ''around'' estimation It's blatantly wrong Or To make it even simpler to compensate for your apparent complete lack of mathematical ability In the past 40 years 55% of governments were Conservative administrations 45% of governments were not Conservative administrations 40 minus 13 years is 27 years. Or are you claiming that an overwhelmingly dominated Conservative administration in the coalition were so profoundly weak and ineffective that they were unable to take care of necessities? The obvious here is that your serious political bias is overruling whatever logic you might posses. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 25, 2023 18:53:44 GMT
Privatising Gas, Electricity and Telecommunications resulted in a far better service . Cable & wireless i.e. telecommunications won the 'Queens Award to industry' in IIRC 1978/79. It was the Crown Jules of the nationalised industries. Not if you consider that a big part of profits go to other countries, as they are now owned by foreign countries, and as I recall, some as part of nationalised industrial companies in other countries. How about that for Irony? The services were much better when these were privatised. I was not disputing that profits went to other countries. |
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