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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2022 11:45:46 GMT
Yes. I agree. Thanks. My instinct was to post at least one link. But I decided against it. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 24, 2022 15:33:54 GMT
This ^^ claim has zero credibility. Seemingly posted out of exasperation and pain. This nonsense was done to death when the disruption was occurring - but if if you insist. Bosses at Dover bid for £33m after Brexit for more money to upgrade the port, including new passport control booths, but only received £33,000 in December 2020 bid allocations. Kent Council is concerned that the port struggles to cope at peak demand and can easily “fall over”. It is hoping to source new funds to upgrade the port. Despite failing to secure the investment required, Dover carefully prepared for the summer holiday getaway. It recently installed additional temporary passport booths and reviewed operations to ensure that traffic flows as smoothly as possible.and Lucy Morton, professional officer for the ISU – the union for borders, immigration and customs staff – has been speaking to the BBC’s Today programme about the problems at the border. Because Dover is located where it is, there is so little overflow space. It takes relatively little for backlogs to pile up and clearly this has become really significant. This is all the French immigration control rather than the UK immigration control. The port of Dover and Calais is juxtaposed so the UK control is in Calais, and you go through that as you leave France, and the French control is in the UK and Dover, and you go through the French control as you leave England. So this is a lack of French staff. There are 12 lanes, I’m told, and at one point only four of those were manned. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2022 18:12:35 GMT
This ^^ claim has zero credibility. Seemingly posted out of exasperation and pain. This nonsense was done to death when the disruption was occurring - but if if you insist. Bosses at Dover bid for £33m after Brexit for more money to upgrade the port, including new passport control booths, but only received £33,000 in December 2020 bid allocations. Kent Council is concerned that the port struggles to cope at peak demand and can easily “fall over”. It is hoping to source new funds to upgrade the port. Despite failing to secure the investment required, Dover carefully prepared for the summer holiday getaway. It recently installed additional temporary passport booths and reviewed operations to ensure that traffic flows as smoothly as possible.and Lucy Morton, professional officer for the ISU – the union for borders, immigration and customs staff – has been speaking to the BBC’s Today programme about the problems at the border. Because Dover is located where it is, there is so little overflow space. It takes relatively little for backlogs to pile up and clearly this has become really significant. This is all the French immigration control rather than the UK immigration control. The port of Dover and Calais is juxtaposed so the UK control is in Calais, and you go through that as you leave France, and the French control is in the UK and Dover, and you go through the French control as you leave England. So this is a lack of French staff. There are 12 lanes, I’m told, and at one point only four of those were manned.So, the Port of Dover only got £33K. Therefore, the UK did reject a 33M proposal (or bid) to "double the capacity for French government passport checks at the port of Dover.." (FT, Dec 2020). It's not fake news, then. That same Lucy Moreton said or was quoted to have said that "tailbacks were a “reasonably predictable” result of Brexit." (thelocal.fr, 24 July 2022) and that "it was predictable that Brexit would cause more disruption because of the additional checks required, adding: “This is the time it’s chosen to bite.”" (The Guardian, 23 July 2022) Again, the French were adamant that they were all there. Late by an hour but all present. Meanwhile, "Port of Dover boss Doug Bannister initially sided with British politicians in blaming a lack of French border guards for the chaos, but later admitted to LBC that it was “absolutely true” that Brexit was ultimately to blame. In “a post-Brexit environment”, he said, the “transaction times through the borders are going to take longer”. (The Week, 25 July 2022.) They ^ all point to one conclusion: It was not the late arrival of French border officials that caused the massive tailbacks. It was the extra checks and extra time at the immigration booths. Had we been EU members, French border officials could have and would have just waved everyone in to clear the backlog. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 24, 2022 18:30:10 GMT
This ^^ claim has zero credibility. Seemingly posted out of exasperation and pain. This nonsense was done to death when the disruption was occurring - but if if you insist. Bosses at Dover bid for £33m after Brexit for more money to upgrade the port, including new passport control booths, but only received £33,000 in December 2020 bid allocations. Kent Council is concerned that the port struggles to cope at peak demand and can easily “fall over”. It is hoping to source new funds to upgrade the port. Despite failing to secure the investment required, Dover carefully prepared for the summer holiday getaway. It recently installed additional temporary passport booths and reviewed operations to ensure that traffic flows as smoothly as possible.and Lucy Morton, professional officer for the ISU – the union for borders, immigration and customs staff – has been speaking to the BBC’s Today programme about the problems at the border. Because Dover is located where it is, there is so little overflow space. It takes relatively little for backlogs to pile up and clearly this has become really significant. This is all the French immigration control rather than the UK immigration control. The port of Dover and Calais is juxtaposed so the UK control is in Calais, and you go through that as you leave France, and the French control is in the UK and Dover, and you go through the French control as you leave England. So this is a lack of French staff. There are 12 lanes, I’m told, and at one point only four of those were manned.Good post. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 24, 2022 21:44:06 GMT
So, the Port of Dover only got £33K. Therefore, the UK did reject a 33M proposal (or bid) to "double the capacity for French government passport checks at the port of Dover.." (FT, Dec 2020). It's not fake news, then. The capacity was increased - it didnt matter whether it was increased to 12 immigration checkpoints or a 120, the delays were caused by the decision by France to only man 4You seem to have this idea that the UK decides on how the French allocate their border guards.. |
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Post by sheepy on Oct 24, 2022 21:51:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 6:56:24 GMT
So, the Port of Dover only got £33K. Therefore, the UK did reject a 33M proposal (or bid) to "double the capacity for French government passport checks at the port of Dover.." (FT, Dec 2020). It's not fake news, then. The capacity was increased - it didnt matter whether it was increased to 12 immigration checkpoints or a 120, the delays were caused by the decision by France to only man 4You seem to have this idea that the UK decides on how the French allocate their border guards.. (a) You can double down on your mistaken ideas all you want, but it will not change the fact that the delays were caused by extra transaction time at the check points as required by Brexit. Not by the absence of 5 immigration officers for one hour. French officials said so. The Head of Port of Dover said so. The Immigration Services Union said so. (b) It was not the French government who decided for 5 immigration officials to arrive late for work. Nobody decided to come to work late that day. (c) Stop blaming France. Or the EU. Brexit is not their responsibility. Brexit is our crap. It was our decision to be treated as a third country. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 25, 2022 7:09:26 GMT
The capacity was increased - it didnt matter whether it was increased to 12 immigration checkpoints or a 120, the delays were caused by the decision by France to only man 4You seem to have this idea that the UK decides on how the French allocate their border guards.. (a) You can double down on your mistaken ideas all you want, but it will not change the fact that the delays were caused by extra transaction time at the check points as required by Brexit. Not by the absence of 5 immigration officers for one hour. French officials said so. The Head of Port of Dover said so. The Immigration Services Union said so. (b) It was not the French government who decided for 5 immigration officials to arrive late for work. Nobody decided to come to work late that day. (c) Stop blaming France. Or the EU. Brexit is not their responsibility. Brexit is our crap. It was our decision to be treated like as a third country. OK - lets try again. If I fly from London to Paris and then have to queue for 3 hours to get through immigration at Charles DeGaulle with thousands of other arriving passengers from all over the globe because the French have decided to only man 10% of the immigration checkpoints - is that the fault of Brexit? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 9:22:03 GMT
(a) You can double down on your mistaken ideas all you want, but it will not change the fact that the delays were caused by extra transaction time at the check points as required by Brexit. Not by the absence of 5 immigration officers for one hour. French officials said so. The Head of Port of Dover said so. The Immigration Services Union said so. (b) It was not the French government who decided for 5 immigration officials to arrive late for work. Nobody decided to come to work late that day. (c) Stop blaming France. Or the EU. Brexit is not their responsibility. Brexit is our crap. It was our decision to be treated like as a third country. OK - lets try again. If I fly from London to Paris and then have to queue for 3 hours to get through immigration at Charles DeGaulle with thousands of other arriving passengers from all over the globe because the French have decided to only man 10% of the immigration checkpoints - is that the fault of Brexit?You're presenting a completely different scenario. Try once more. But this time drop the leading question. Please. Once again, "the French" did not decide to cut down their staff at immigration checkpoints. Nobody decided to come to work one hour late.  Being obstinate about your bogus claim will never change the fact that new, time consuming Brexit-induced border procedures caused the massive delays. |
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Post by Steve on Oct 25, 2022 9:25:42 GMT
Gnome please present your proof that on that mother of all queues day, all the promised French border staff turned up at the booths on time.
Won't hold my breath
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 10:10:26 GMT
Gnome please present your proof that on that mother of all queues day, all the promised French border staff turned up at the booths on time. Won't hold my breath What do you want -- time sheets? I'm sorry but I don't have their time sheets.  And neither do you, I assume. I already said, according to French authorities, 5 were late for work. The only question there was why they were late for work. If it is not good enough for you, then so be it, because proof or no proof, it does not detract from the fact that not only has a French government official claimed but the Head of Port of Dover himself and the official from the ISU herself have admitted that new, Brexit-related border checks caused the massive delays. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 25, 2022 10:30:41 GMT
OK - lets try again. If I fly from London to Paris and then have to queue for 3 hours to get through immigration at Charles DeGaulle with thousands of other arriving passengers from all over the globe because the French have decided to only man 10% of the immigration checkpoints - is that the fault of Brexit?You're presenting a completely different scenario. Try once more. But this time drop the leading question. Please. Once again, "the French" did not decide to cut down their staff at immigration checkpoints. Nobody decided to come to work one hour late. Being obstinate about your bogus claim will never change the fact that new, time consuming Brexit-induced border procedures caused the massive delays. The French decide on how they are going to man the checkpoints at their borders - the UK has absolutely no input in that decision. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 10:54:18 GMT
You're presenting a completely different scenario. Try once more. But this time drop the leading question. Please. Once again, "the French" did not decide to cut down their staff at immigration checkpoints. Nobody decided to come to work one hour late. Being obstinate about your bogus claim will never change the fact that new, time consuming Brexit-induced border procedures caused the massive delays. The French decide on how they are going to man the checkpoints at their borders - the UK has absolutely no input in that decision. Yes, they do. So? So, you're leading me back to your spurious claim that the French decided to cut down staff at the port of Dover. Deliberately! |
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Post by Steve on Oct 25, 2022 11:25:13 GMT
Gnome please present your proof that on that mother of all queues day, all the promised French border staff turned up at the booths on time. Won't hold my breath What do you want -- time sheets? I'm sorry but I don't have their time sheets. And neither do you, I assume. I already said, according to French authorities, 5 were late for work. The only question there was why they were late for work. If it is not good enough for you, then so be it, because proof or no proof, it does not detract from the fact that not only has a French government official claimed but the Head of Port of Dover himself and the official from the ISU herself have admitted that new, Brexit-related border checks caused the massive delays. They weren't just late they then went the wrong way to Dover so got stuck in the same jam their original lateness had caused so were chronically late and the whole fiasco had as its root cause a gross failure of people with French passports. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2022 12:00:55 GMT
What do you want -- time sheets? I'm sorry but I don't have their time sheets. And neither do you, I assume. I already said, according to French authorities, 5 were late for work. The only question there was why they were late for work. If it is not good enough for you, then so be it, because proof or no proof, it does not detract from the fact that not only has a French government official claimed but the Head of Port of Dover himself and the official from the ISU herself have admitted that new, Brexit-related border checks caused the massive delays. They weren't just late they then went the wrong way to Dover so got stuck in the same jam their original lateness had caused so were chronically late and the whole fiasco had as its root cause a gross failure of people with French passports. That's your story. However, Leclerc, the French official, was saying that staff were late for just over an hour. I find this credible. And I have not read anything that disproves his just-over-an hour-late story. At any rate, the claim that 5 French border officials coming just-over-an-hour late for work -- at the behest of the French national government, at that! -- caused the massive jam in Dover just completely lacks credibility. Particularly, when you consider that two British officials conceded that new Brexit border procedures were to blame. |
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Being obstinate about your bogus claim will never change the fact that new, time consuming Brexit-induced border procedures caused the massive delays. 
And neither do you, I assume.