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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2023 8:24:10 GMT
Is this the start of the process of "softening up BJ's Brexit?" www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/11/revealed-secret-cross-party-summit-held-to-confront-failings-of-brexitRevealed: secret cross-party summit held to confront failings of Brexit
Leading Brexiters and remainers, including Michael Gove and David Lammy, met for two-day ‘private discussion’ with diplomats and business leaders
An extraordinary cross-party summit bringing together leading leavers and remainers – including Michael Gove and senior members of Keir Starmer’s shadow cabinet – has been held in high secrecy to address the failings of Brexit and how to remedy them in the national interest, the Observer can reveal.
Those in attendance from the pro-Brexit side included the former Tory party leader Michael Howard, former Tory chancellor Norman Lamont and former Labour Europe minister Gisela Stuart, one of the leading figures of the leave campaign.
Among the prominent remainer politicians present were shadow foreign secretary David Lammy, shadow defence secretary John Healey and the former European commissioner and Labour cabinet minister Peter Mandelson, who acted as chairman. From the Tory remainer camp, the ex-cabinet minister and long-serving minister for Europe, David Lidington, attended. Labour’s David Lammy is understood to have attended the meeting.
Non-political attendees included John Symonds, chair of the pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline; Oliver Robbins, Goldman Sachs managing director and former chief Brexit negotiator for the government from 2017 to 2019; Tom Scholar, the former Treasury permanent secretary; and Angus Lapsley, Nato assistant secretary general for defence policy and planning.
A confidential introductory statement for those at the meeting acknowledged that there was now a view among “some at least, that so far the UK has not yet found its way forward outside the EU” with Brexit “acting as a drag on our growth and inhibiting the UK’s potential”.
A source who was there said it was a “constructive meeting” that addressed the problems and opportunities of Brexit but which dwelt heavily on the economic downside to the UK economy at a time of global instability and rising energy prices.
Gove,,,, is understood to have made regular contributions ...saying he was very “honest” about the shortcomings of Brexit, while still believing it would prove the right decision in the long run.
In terms that will anger ardent Tory Brexiters, the summit documents said that while on the European side there was “little interest in further wrangling over Brexit and little time being devoted to the relationship with the UK … there is also clear European as well as British strategic interest in a productive and closer relationship.”
Stating that “rejoining the EU will not be on the agenda”, the summit papers nonetheless stressed that the EU and UK “have shared interests on containing Russian aggression, developing new sources of energy and building major technology companies with their capital base on our side of the Atlantic, rather than just the US”, as well as common defence interests.
The unresolved matter of the Northern Ireland protocol, which is the main UK-related subject currently occupying EU officials in Brussels, was also central to the talks.
The highly unusual cross-party nature of the gathering of Brexit opponents – and the seniority of those who agreed to attend – reflects a growing acceptance among politicians in the two main parties, as well as business leaders and civil servants, that Brexit in its current form is damaging the UK economy and reducing its strategic influence in the world.
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Post by thomas on Feb 13, 2023 8:41:12 GMT
Is this the start of the process of "softening up BJ's Brexit?" www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/11/revealed-secret-cross-party-summit-held-to-confront-failings-of-brexitRevealed: secret cross-party summit held to confront failings of Brexit
Leading Brexiters and remainers, including Michael Gove and David Lammy, met for two-day ‘private discussion’ with diplomats and business leaders
An extraordinary cross-party summit bringing together leading leavers and remainers – including Michael Gove and senior members of Keir Starmer’s shadow cabinet – has been held in high secrecy to address the failings of Brexit and how to remedy them in the national interest, the Observer can reveal.
Those in attendance from the pro-Brexit side included the former Tory party leader Michael Howard, former Tory chancellor Norman Lamont and former Labour Europe minister Gisela Stuart, one of the leading figures of the leave campaign.
Among the prominent remainer politicians present were shadow foreign secretary David Lammy, shadow defence secretary John Healey and the former European commissioner and Labour cabinet minister Peter Mandelson, who acted as chairman. From the Tory remainer camp, the ex-cabinet minister and long-serving minister for Europe, David Lidington, attended. Labour’s David Lammy is understood to have attended the meeting.
Non-political attendees included John Symonds, chair of the pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline; Oliver Robbins, Goldman Sachs managing director and former chief Brexit negotiator for the government from 2017 to 2019; Tom Scholar, the former Treasury permanent secretary; and Angus Lapsley, Nato assistant secretary general for defence policy and planning.
A confidential introductory statement for those at the meeting acknowledged that there was now a view among “some at least, that so far the UK has not yet found its way forward outside the EU” with Brexit “acting as a drag on our growth and inhibiting the UK’s potential”.
A source who was there said it was a “constructive meeting” that addressed the problems and opportunities of Brexit but which dwelt heavily on the economic downside to the UK economy at a time of global instability and rising energy prices.
Gove,,,, is understood to have made regular contributions ...saying he was very “honest” about the shortcomings of Brexit, while still believing it would prove the right decision in the long run.
In terms that will anger ardent Tory Brexiters, the summit documents said that while on the European side there was “little interest in further wrangling over Brexit and little time being devoted to the relationship with the UK … there is also clear European as well as British strategic interest in a productive and closer relationship.”
Stating that “rejoining the EU will not be on the agenda”, the summit papers nonetheless stressed that the EU and UK “have shared interests on containing Russian aggression, developing new sources of energy and building major technology companies with their capital base on our side of the Atlantic, rather than just the US”, as well as common defence interests.
The unresolved matter of the Northern Ireland protocol, which is the main UK-related subject currently occupying EU officials in Brussels, was also central to the talks.
The highly unusual cross-party nature of the gathering of Brexit opponents – and the seniority of those who agreed to attend – reflects a growing acceptance among politicians in the two main parties, as well as business leaders and civil servants, that Brexit in its current form is damaging the UK economy and reducing its strategic influence in the world.
just been having this conversation with bentley gnome. Fucking hilarious watching this play out.
Basically a meeting by lab and tory on how to save face while crawling back to the EU , and at the same time fool brexiters into believeing they are honouring brexit.
What an absolute mess these people and that parliament has made. I voted remain , didnt support brexit , but i would have more respect if they actually tried to make things work instead of running up the anglo saxon white flag after a short space of time.
Its clear now the uk is too wee to survive without brussells , and clearly time to put all this brexit fantasy behind them , rejoin the EU , and go back to being a region of north west europe.
None of them will ever live this down.
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Post by sheepy on Feb 13, 2023 8:51:33 GMT
It will be fine I am sure the people have been subdued enough now and realise this democracy stuff should be left with politicians and you get what you are told you are getting, it will all be fine we might have to send what is left of the army in to subdue any backlash, but on the Brightside they will accept democracy is a fallacy.
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Post by Vinny on Feb 13, 2023 9:37:29 GMT
Seeing as we're out, Boris did not fail at getting the UK out of the EU.
Brexit is a success. The remain campaign was a failure.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2023 10:45:09 GMT
Seeing as we're out, Boris did not fail at getting the UK out of the EU. Brexit is a success. The remain campaign was a failure. The only success that can be attributed to Brexit is to show that we need to become members of the EU again. Who'd have thunk it. 😔 |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 13, 2023 10:59:48 GMT
Why do you think that ?
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 13, 2023 11:35:08 GMT
I'd like someone to advocate another referendum on rejoining as a manifesto commitment - then we could all see exactly what the costs and rules would be. At the moment all we get is whinging and comparisons based on a membership formula which wouldn't apply in future.
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Post by Steve on Feb 13, 2023 12:10:13 GMT
. . .Brexit is a success. . . . Not on this planet it aint |
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Post by Dubdrifter on Feb 13, 2023 12:21:10 GMT
How can they have a Summit enquiry on the failings of something that hasn’t been executed in any shape or form we recognise … or voted for.
Brexit hasn’t happened … yet.
… and won’t happen until we have a CIVIL ‘Peaceful’ CONFRONTATION and oust the people who destroyed our Democracy … We need to end our links with the following Dictatorships …. NATO, the EU Mafia in Brussels, the USA and Israel … … reclaim our Media, especially The Guardian and the BBC … who are “OWNED” and working for these foreign interests. ….
Voting to ‘get back CONTROL’ … means ‘GETTING BACK CONTROL!!’ … Kapish?!
We can trade with many other Countries freely … without terms and conditions of forced immigration and broken borders.
We just need to reorganise with the right people IN CHARGE! … those that respect DEMOCRATIC CHOICES we make.
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Post by Vinny on Feb 13, 2023 12:51:52 GMT
. . .Brexit is a success. . . . Not on this planet it aint Why do you say that We're either out of the EU or we're not. If we're not, then it's a failure. If we are, then, however much remoaners might not be happy with the arrangement, we've been successful in leaving the EU and honouring the vote on the ballot paper to leave the EU. |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 13, 2023 13:05:17 GMT
Is this the start of the process of "softening up BJ's Brexit?" www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/11/revealed-secret-cross-party-summit-held-to-confront-failings-of-brexitRevealed: secret cross-party summit held to confront failings of Brexit
Leading Brexiters and remainers, including Michael Gove and David Lammy, met for two-day ‘private discussion’ with diplomats and business leaders
An extraordinary cross-party summit bringing together leading leavers and remainers – including Michael Gove and senior members of Keir Starmer’s shadow cabinet – has been held in high secrecy to address the failings of Brexit and how to remedy them in the national interest, the Observer can reveal.
Those in attendance from the pro-Brexit side included the former Tory party leader Michael Howard, former Tory chancellor Norman Lamont and former Labour Europe minister Gisela Stuart, one of the leading figures of the leave campaign.
Among the prominent remainer politicians present were shadow foreign secretary David Lammy, shadow defence secretary John Healey and the former European commissioner and Labour cabinet minister Peter Mandelson, who acted as chairman. From the Tory remainer camp, the ex-cabinet minister and long-serving minister for Europe, David Lidington, attended. Labour’s David Lammy is understood to have attended the meeting.
Non-political attendees included John Symonds, chair of the pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline; Oliver Robbins, Goldman Sachs managing director and former chief Brexit negotiator for the government from 2017 to 2019; Tom Scholar, the former Treasury permanent secretary; and Angus Lapsley, Nato assistant secretary general for defence policy and planning.
A confidential introductory statement for those at the meeting acknowledged that there was now a view among “some at least, that so far the UK has not yet found its way forward outside the EU” with Brexit “acting as a drag on our growth and inhibiting the UK’s potential”.
A source who was there said it was a “constructive meeting” that addressed the problems and opportunities of Brexit but which dwelt heavily on the economic downside to the UK economy at a time of global instability and rising energy prices.
Gove,,,, is understood to have made regular contributions ...saying he was very “honest” about the shortcomings of Brexit, while still believing it would prove the right decision in the long run.
In terms that will anger ardent Tory Brexiters, the summit documents said that while on the European side there was “little interest in further wrangling over Brexit and little time being devoted to the relationship with the UK … there is also clear European as well as British strategic interest in a productive and closer relationship.”
Stating that “rejoining the EU will not be on the agenda”, the summit papers nonetheless stressed that the EU and UK “have shared interests on containing Russian aggression, developing new sources of energy and building major technology companies with their capital base on our side of the Atlantic, rather than just the US”, as well as common defence interests.
The unresolved matter of the Northern Ireland protocol, which is the main UK-related subject currently occupying EU officials in Brussels, was also central to the talks.
The highly unusual cross-party nature of the gathering of Brexit opponents – and the seniority of those who agreed to attend – reflects a growing acceptance among politicians in the two main parties, as well as business leaders and civil servants, that Brexit in its current form is damaging the UK economy and reducing its strategic influence in the world.
Top secret.....lol. |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 13, 2023 13:12:02 GMT
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Post by Vinny on Feb 13, 2023 13:24:45 GMT
Here's why we won't be rejoining:
1) There would be no rebate it would cost at least £20bn a year minimum to go back.
2) We'd have to join Schengen.
3) We'd have to commit to joining the Euro and rejoin the Exchange Rate Mechanism.
4) We'd have to accept free movement of people again.
5) The Common Agricultural Policy is complete and total shit.
6) The Common Fisheries Policy is as well. We'd have to re-enter these policies too.
7) It's a declining market for UK goods and services.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2023 13:25:59 GMT
just been having this conversation with bentley gnome. Fucking hilarious watching this play out. Basically a meeting by lab and tory on how to save face while crawling back to the EU , and at the same time fool brexiters into believeing they are honouring brexit. What an absolute mess these people and that parliament has made. I voted remain , didnt support brexit , but i would have more respect if they actually tried to make things work instead of running up the anglo saxon white flag after a short space of time. Its clear now the uk is too wee to survive without brussells , and clearly time to put all this brexit fantasy behind them , rejoin the EU , and go back to being a region of north west europe. None of them will ever live this down.
That's one way of looking at it, but personally, I am just glad that even hard-core leave supporters appear to have accepted that their delusional, dogmatic and overly idealistic approach is a major contributory factor to the failure of their leave project. This "summit" wouldn't amount to much, probably, but it's still a step towards the right direction so I can not dismiss it offhand. The UK's problem is that leaving the EU is never enough for hard-core leave supporters -- those who support, reinforce and find excuses for BJ's Brexit. They have to act like young, arrogant, drunk army privates who feel the need to let the world know that they've taken over the joint. For them, leaving has to be BJ's Brexit -- reneging on our word, lying, throwing the baby with the bathwater and all that. My position has always been that if we have to leave the EU, then we have to leave the EU but it can never be BJ's Brexit. Not this way. The UK needs Brussels to maintain its status and its global influence yet within the EU construct, the UK was not and will never be just "a region of Northwest Europe." |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 13, 2023 13:39:36 GMT
There's no going back.
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