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Post by zanygame on Feb 22, 2023 16:45:35 GMT
__"Greece, Hungary, Italy, Romania, Spain, and the United Kingdom have implemented a windfall tax. The Czech Republic and Poland have published proposals to enact a windfall tax and Spain published a proposal to enact a second windfall tax because the first one was diluted by a series of exclusions that left many energy providers out of its scope. I can't see how any company that made stonking profits by accident from a war could really object. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 22, 2023 17:00:10 GMT
__"Greece, Hungary, Italy, Romania, Spain, and the United Kingdom have implemented a windfall tax. The Czech Republic and Poland have published proposals to enact a windfall tax and Spain published a proposal to enact a second windfall tax because the first one was diluted by a series of exclusions that left many energy providers out of its scope. I can't see how any company that made stonking profits by accident from a war could really object. Exactly.  |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 22, 2023 17:29:52 GMT
__"Greece, Hungary, Italy, Romania, Spain, and the United Kingdom have implemented a windfall tax. The Czech Republic and Poland have published proposals to enact a windfall tax and Spain published a proposal to enact a second windfall tax because the first one was diluted by a series of exclusions that left many energy providers out of its scope. It's a scam that you and Zany haven't spotted. The excess profits are brought about as a result of consumers paying over the odds. that amount should be properly accounted and go back to the consumers, not retained by government and used as inducements to vote for them. |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 22, 2023 17:36:41 GMT
__"Greece, Hungary, Italy, Romania, Spain, and the United Kingdom have implemented a windfall tax. The Czech Republic and Poland have published proposals to enact a windfall tax and Spain published a proposal to enact a second windfall tax because the first one was diluted by a series of exclusions that left many energy providers out of its scope. It's a scam that you and Zany haven't spotted. The excess profits are brought about as a result of consumers paying over the odds. that amount should be properly accounted and go back to the consumers, not retained by government and used as inducements to vote for them. If there was an easy way to achieve this I would certainly agree. But more importantly we need to separate the price of renewable energy from gas and therefore bring the prices down. No one mentions the war windfalls of the wind turbine companies. |
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Post by sheepy on Feb 22, 2023 17:39:36 GMT
Meanwhile your drinking water is being poisoned while you talk a bunch of WEF lies.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 22, 2023 18:08:50 GMT
That doesn't make a great deal of sense - the windfall taxes and changes to corporate taxation have already resulted in lost investment and jobs. So would restricting the price they can sell gas for. You are missing the point. What I am suggesting is a long term contract that is profitable for the company - I'm certainly not advocating 75% tax rates like you. The energy market is extremely volatile - yes Shell made record profits in 2022 but they offset the £20 billion loss they made in 2020 and I didnt see anyone suggesting they should be compensated for that. If you take away their ability to make profits in the good time them its not surprising that they are voting with their feet and moving investment to other parts of the world. |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 22, 2023 19:12:35 GMT
So would restricting the price they can sell gas for. I don't think I missed the point (I haven't set 75% tax rates) But I see the two as separate issues with the same result. I accept the possibility that a 75% tax on the unplanned profits as the result of a war might discourage future investment, even if I find the idea disgusting. Separately I also think that having your future profits trimmed by a government stipulation (And the concerns that government and stipulations change) might also curtail investment. Especially when it is just as easy to invest in Alaska as it is in Scotland. What was the cause of the £20Bn loss, was it caused by the government? |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 22, 2023 20:25:52 GMT
It's a scam that you and Zany haven't spotted. The excess profits are brought about as a result of consumers paying over the odds. that amount should be properly accounted and go back to the consumers, not retained by government and used as inducements to vote for them. If there was an easy way to achieve this I would certainly agree. But more importantly we need to separate the price of renewable energy from gas and therefore bring the prices down. No one mentions the war windfalls of the wind turbine companies. Of course there's an easy way to achieve it, energy companies refunding the consumers. |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 22, 2023 21:11:50 GMT
If there was an easy way to achieve this I would certainly agree. But more importantly we need to separate the price of renewable energy from gas and therefore bring the prices down. No one mentions the war windfalls of the wind turbine companies. Of course there's an easy way to achieve it, energy companies refunding the consumers. And how would you calculate what the bills should be? We are talking about the companies that supply the oil and gas to the generating companies, yes? |
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Post by see2 on Feb 22, 2023 21:42:51 GMT
__"Greece, Hungary, Italy, Romania, Spain, and the United Kingdom have implemented a windfall tax. The Czech Republic and Poland have published proposals to enact a windfall tax and Spain published a proposal to enact a second windfall tax because the first one was diluted by a series of exclusions that left many energy providers out of its scope. It's a scam that you and Zany haven't spotted. The excess profits are brought about as a result of consumers paying over the odds. that amount should be properly accounted and go back to the consumers, not retained by government and used as inducements to vote for them. I think I could agree with that |
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Post by see2 on Feb 22, 2023 21:45:15 GMT
Of course there's an easy way to achieve it, energy companies refunding the consumers. And how would you calculate what the bills should be? We are talking about the companies that supply the oil and gas to the generating companies, yes? Just whack it out amongst the consumers, or reduce prices for a while. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 23, 2023 7:04:08 GMT
For the life of me I fail to understand people like you. Please explain to me how a tiny country like the UK (0.8% of the worlds population) can make any difference on a global level. Because every small country needs to do the same to make a difference. We produce 1.03% of greenhouse gasses directly from our 0.8% population. But far more importantly we in the West drive the demand for greenhouse production in China where we have our goods made. Its a complicated equation, but basically if we demand electric cars and low energy appliances then China produces electric cars and low energy appliances and the rest of the world buys electric cars and low energy appliances. If we show you can produce your energy efficiently from wind and solar and develop turbines and panels that do so, then other countries will accept those proven systems. Sadly a portion of the population is not interested in the future, but only wants its cake today and because of this the government has had to put in place things to force the issue (such as maximum power usage of hoovers, LED light bulbs etc) The government can ruin the economy and force us into fuel poverty, they have the power to do this, indeed they are doing this, and although it will undoubtedly make them feel smug and virtuous it will make not a jot of difference on a global level. Narendra Modi says India didn't cause global warming and has no plans to close any of it's hundreds of coal power plants. China makes no secret of the fact they will build another 288 coal power plants by 2030 (To add to the 1,180 they already have). China are also busy building new coal power plants in Indonesia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Malaysia, Cambodia, Turkey and other countries including a $10 billion 'mega' coal plant in South Africa. If the big polluters aren't on board, and clearly they're not, then anything a tiny country like the UK does is just for show. |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 23, 2023 7:17:42 GMT
Because every small country needs to do the same to make a difference. We produce 1.03% of greenhouse gasses directly from our 0.8% population. But far more importantly we in the West drive the demand for greenhouse production in China where we have our goods made. Its a complicated equation, but basically if we demand electric cars and low energy appliances then China produces electric cars and low energy appliances and the rest of the world buys electric cars and low energy appliances. If we show you can produce your energy efficiently from wind and solar and develop turbines and panels that do so, then other countries will accept those proven systems. Sadly a portion of the population is not interested in the future, but only wants its cake today and because of this the government has had to put in place things to force the issue (such as maximum power usage of hoovers, LED light bulbs etc) The government can ruin the economy and force us into fuel poverty, they have the power to do this, indeed they are doing this, and although it will undoubtedly make them feel smug and virtuous it will make not a jot of difference on a global level. Narendra Modi says India didn't cause global warming and has no plans to close any of it's hundreds of coal power plants. China makes no secret of the fact they will build another 288 coal power plants by 2030 (To add to the 1,180 they already have). China are also busy building new coal power plants in Indonesia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Malaysia, Cambodia, Turkey and other countries including a $10 billion 'mega' coal plant in South Africa. If the big polluters aren't on board, and clearly they're not, then anything a tiny country like the UK does is just for show. Again and again. the fuel poverty crises is nothing to do with renewable energy. There is no need to make this lie part of your argument. Other than that we sit at an impasse. You argue we should do nothing I argue we should. Both of us have stated our reasons. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 23, 2023 7:36:13 GMT
The government can ruin the economy and force us into fuel poverty, they have the power to do this, indeed they are doing this, and although it will undoubtedly make them feel smug and virtuous it will make not a jot of difference on a global level. Narendra Modi says India didn't cause global warming and has no plans to close any of it's hundreds of coal power plants. China makes no secret of the fact they will build another 288 coal power plants by 2030 (To add to the 1,180 they already have). China are also busy building new coal power plants in Indonesia, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Malaysia, Cambodia, Turkey and other countries including a $10 billion 'mega' coal plant in South Africa. If the big polluters aren't on board, and clearly they're not, then anything a tiny country like the UK does is just for show. Again and again. the fuel poverty crises is nothing to do with renewable energy. There is no need to make this lie part of your argument. Other than that we sit at an impasse. You argue we should do nothing I argue we should. Both of us have stated our reasons. Brilliant. So in your opinion ZG, closing all of our reliable coal fired power stations and not exploiting shale gas while spending £billions on unreliable wind turbines, has got nothing to do with the government warning people that power cuts/rationing may be necessary to preserve dwindling supplies. ZG, again and again, renewables are expensive and are not reliable. |
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Post by see2 on Feb 23, 2023 9:10:00 GMT
Err no. We are constantly told that higher tax in this country will drive companies to invest elsewhere. There are plenty of places in the world to drill for gas. Why would a company except punitive restrictions in the UK? So its not just unpredictable tax that puts companies off is it? That doesn't make a great deal of sense - the windfall taxes and changes to corporate taxation have already resulted in lost investment and jobs. Which one did the damage or the most damage? Or do you include Windfall tax as speculation? |
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