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Post by sheepy on Feb 18, 2023 18:06:01 GMT
Ah the old you are nuts if you don't believe me ploy, as you completely failed at maths, I certainly don't believe you have a clue what you are talking about, but just blindly following what you are told. This global bollocks is in fact getting right on my nerves, where it has become a power ploy and a wealth producer built on nothing, as i think looking after ones own eco system can never be a bad thing for the future, this globalised cobblers is just that, cobblers. In actual fact I have listened to the lunatics from the WEF and their insane policies about as much as any sane person can manage without starting a counter movement, yet!
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 20, 2023 9:57:57 GMT
War and Peace is a literary work by the Russian author Leo Tolstoy that mixes fictional narrative with chapters on history and philosophy — that’s Wiki’s take on it, and also a relevant appraisal of many forum posts. Don’t see Energy Security and Net Zero as a “contradiction in terms” — it’s not going to be easy, but if the UK achieves net zero over the next quarter century from its own energy production, supply and use, it is more likely to be more secure than if it remained dependent on imported gas, oil, and imported electricity. There’s also the task of maintaining energy security while working towards net zero. Net zero technologies could also prove profitable for the UK… No shit Sherlock, you obviously struggle with analogies. No matter. Renewables are expensive and unreliable, which is why the phrase 'Energy security and net zero' is a contradiction in terms. Relying on the wind to provide us with affordable and reliable electricity, is a complete fantasy, and it's no secret that it's a complete fantasy. The government have provided £billions in subsidy to the renewable energy industry and every year the government acknowledge the industry need more, an extra £285 million last year, Christ knows how much this year, it seems it doesn't matter how much tax payers money is thrown at wind farms. Yet in December and January the government warned us that power cuts to preserve dwindling energy supplies may be necessary. I wonder when someone in government will suddenly realise that the emperor is naked. Net zero technology may be profitable and more importantly, reliable, at some point in the future but that point is not now. We are running before we can walk in an attempt to look virtuous to the rest of the world. The fact that in 21st century UK millions of people cant afford to heat their homes is, it would seem, worth it so politicians can say look how green we are. For your interest: In December 2022 the ONS said that during the winter of 2021/22 there were 28,300 deaths in England and Wales due to cold homes, and guess what, no one is talking about it. Yet if just 1 person dies this summer due to heat deluded lefties and the green lobby will be shouting about it from the rooftops.
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Post by patman post on Feb 20, 2023 11:28:19 GMT
War and Peace is a literary work by the Russian author Leo Tolstoy that mixes fictional narrative with chapters on history and philosophy — that’s Wiki’s take on it, and also a relevant appraisal of many forum posts.
Don’t see Energy Security and Net Zero as a “contradiction in terms” — it’s not going to be easy, but if the UK achieves net zero over the next quarter century from its own energy production, supply and use, it is more likely to be more secure than if it remained dependent on imported gas, oil, and imported electricity. There’s also the task of maintaining energy security while working towards net zero.
Net zero technologies could also prove profitable for the UK… No shit Sherlock, you obviously struggle with analogies. No matter. Renewables are expensive and unreliable, which is why the phrase 'Energy security and net zero' is a contradiction in terms. Relying on the wind to provide us with affordable and reliable electricity, is a complete fantasy, and it's no secret that it's a complete fantasy. The government have provided £billions in subsidy to the renewable energy industry and every year the government acknowledge the industry need more, an extra £285 million last year, Christ knows how much this year, it seems it doesn't matter how much tax payers money is thrown at wind farms. Yet in December and January the government warned us that power cuts to preserve dwindling energy supplies may be necessary. I wonder when someone in government will suddenly realise that the emperor is naked. Net zero technology may be profitable and more importantly, reliable, at some point in the future but that point is not now. We are running before we can walk in an attempt to look virtuous to the rest of the world. The fact that in 21st century UK millions of people cant afford to heat their homes is, it would seem, worth it so politicians can say look how green we are. For your interest: In December 2022 the ONS said that during the winter of 2021/22 there were 28,300 deaths in England and Wales due to cold homes, and guess what, no one is talking about it. Yet if just 1 person dies this summer due to heat deluded lefties and the green lobby will be shouting about it from the rooftops. I am unable to verify your figures with the latest ONS release: Winter mortality in England and Wales: 2021 to 2022 (provisional) and 2020 to 2021 (final)
An estimated 13,400 more deaths occurred in the winter period (December 2021 to March 2022) compared with the average of the non-winter periods; this was the second-lowest figure since 1950 to 1951 and was affected by the larger number of deaths in the non-winter months (August 2021 to November 2021 and April 2022 to July 2022).
I don't disagree that renewables are currently expensive and unreliable. But that is a reason to put effort into increasing efficiency and reliability and lowering cost — especially as UK is among the leaders in developing and implementing renewable technologies, from which it could actually be making money by 2050. Meanwhile, I don't see that spending the equivalent of £4.25 per person per year on development as expensive or wasted.
Also, I don't see that the UK is being taken in by some international hoax. Looking at the efforts being made by near neighbours France, Norway, Sweden, etc, and the success in meeting (or approaching) their targets...
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 20, 2023 11:56:17 GMT
I am unable to verify your figures with the latest ONS release: Winter mortality in England and Wales: 2021 to 2022 (provisional) and 2020 to 2021 (final) www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2021to2022provisionaland2020to2021final#winter-mortality-by-cause-of-deathAn estimated 13,400 more deaths occurred in the winter period (December 2021 to March 2022) compared with the average of the non-winter periods; this was the second-lowest figure since 1950 to 1951 and was affected by the larger number of deaths in the non-winter months (August 2021 to November 2021 and April 2022 to July 2022).But that is a reason to put effort into increasing efficiency and reliability and lowering cost — especially as UK is among the leaders in developing and implementing renewable technologies, from which it could actually be making money by 2050. Meanwhile, I don't see that spending the equivalent of £4.25 per person per year on development as expensive or wasted. Also, I don't see that the UK is being taken in by some international hoax. Looking at the efforts being made by near neighbours France, Norway, Sweden, etc, and the success in meeting (or approaching) their targets... ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/infographs/energy/bloc-4c.htmlIn that case, if you agree that renewables are currently expensive and unreliable, which is correct, you should be advocating that we continue to generate affordable and reliable electricity from fossil fuels until such a time as renewables become affordable and reliable. The sad thing is, the UK's net zero policy will have no impact whatsoever on global emissions, we are simply too small. The only impact UK net zero will have is to make our economy and people poorer for the foreseeable future. Are you aware that last July the Climate Change Committee (Of all committee's) conceded that net zero will have an adverse effect on the economy. But it doesn't matter, net zero zealots have momentum and virtue on their side. The fact that people will increasingly suffer as the effects of net zero bite ever harder is an absolute irrelevance to left wing idealogues who believe they're saving the planet.
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Post by Orac on Feb 20, 2023 12:01:13 GMT
It seems we are being continually placed in an unworkable corner
The uncompromising and unrealistic positions of the many people looks a lot to me like some kind of sabotage.
The only connecting thread to many of these positions seems to be our destruction The most destructive positions are the ones most fervently defended - ie where no compromise is allowed
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Post by patman post on Feb 20, 2023 12:58:28 GMT
"Feb 20, 2023 11:56:17 GMT" Red Rackham said: In that case, if you agree that renewables are currently expensive and unreliable, which is correct, you should be advocating that we continue to generate affordable and reliable electricity from fossil fuels until such a time as renewables become affordable and reliable.
The sad thing is, the UK's net zero policy will have no impact whatsoever on global emissions, we are simply too small. The only impact UK net zero will have is to make our economy and people poorer for the foreseeable future. Are you aware that last July the Climate Change Committee (Of all committee's) conceded that net zero will have an adverse effect on the economy. But it doesn't matter, net zero zealots have momentum and virtue on their side. The fact that people will increasingly suffer as the effects of net zero bite ever harder is an absolute irrelevance to left wing idealogues who believe they're saving the planet.
I don't follow your arguments.
Fossil fuels are still being used while renewables are being introduced. It's only hard-liners like Stop Oil that want an immediate block on fossil fuel use. Domestic electricity is still being supplied.
Petrol and diesel is still going to be available, and ICE vehicles are still being made, though sales of new ICE vehicles in the UK will stop in 2030, but those on the road then are likely to be in use until they wear out.
No new gas boilers will be installed in new homes after 2025, but gas will still be supplied to existing users.
Perhaps the cut-off dates could be extended, but would that make any real difference?
At the moment, can we really claim all rising energy costs are down to Net Zero? When Brexit is blamed, the responses are that some price rises are worth it to get sovereignty back. Then Covid, the bloody minded EU, and the war in Ukraine are blamed...
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 20, 2023 17:49:53 GMT
At the moment, can we really claim all rising energy costs are down to Net Zero?
not all but most
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Post by patman post on Feb 20, 2023 19:00:25 GMT
At the moment, can we really claim all rising energy costs are down to Net Zero?
not all but most OK, so quantify it a bit. How much of the cost of petrol and diesel at the pump is due to Net Zero. How much of the cost of domestic electric, gas and oil is due to Net Zero? How much of the rising costs of food is due to Net Zero? In fact, how many of the current difficulties in the UK are down to Net Zero…?
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Post by zanygame on Feb 20, 2023 21:58:19 GMT
OK, so quantify it a bit. How much of the cost of petrol and diesel at the pump is due to Net Zero. How much of the cost of domestic electric, gas and oil is due to Net Zero? How much of the rising costs of food is due to Net Zero? In fact, how many of the current difficulties in the UK are down to Net Zero… Exactly
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 20, 2023 22:25:22 GMT
OK, so quantify it a bit. How much of the cost of petrol and diesel at the pump is due to Net Zero. How much of the cost of domestic electric, gas and oil is due to Net Zero? How much of the rising costs of food is due to Net Zero? In fact, how many of the current difficulties in the UK are down to Net Zero… So suddenly we have gone from a question that asked: "can we really claim all rising energy costs are down to Net Zero?"
to: "how many of the current difficulties in the UK are down to Net Zero…"It's as though you have suddenly realised that your first question might not give the answer you are looking for.. ..very strange..
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Post by zanygame on Feb 21, 2023 6:40:33 GMT
OK, so quantify it a bit. How much of the cost of petrol and diesel at the pump is due to Net Zero. How much of the cost of domestic electric, gas and oil is due to Net Zero? How much of the rising costs of food is due to Net Zero? In fact, how many of the current difficulties in the UK are down to Net Zero… So suddenly we have gone from a question that asked: "can we really claim all rising energy costs are down to Net Zero?"
to: "how many of the current difficulties in the UK are down to Net Zero…"It's as though you have suddenly realised that your first question might not give the answer you are looking for.. ..very strange.. So put some figures to it. As you can see energy bills after the introduction of renewable energy continued to fall due to the introduction of energy saving devices such as LED bulbs. condensing boilers etc. Only the dictators controlling the worlds fossil fuels pushed them back up.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 21, 2023 7:36:35 GMT
Only the dictators controlling the worlds fossil fuels pushed them back up. Which was precisely my point. If we were more like the US and were self sufficient in energy production we wouldn't have seen prices rise as much, as we would not be dependent on foreign dictators. However we are not self sufficient due to not being allowed to access our own energy reserves in the drive to become Net Zero - apparently it's better for climate change if we import gas from halfway around the world rather than use what is under our feet.
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Post by see2 on Feb 21, 2023 8:36:54 GMT
I am unable to verify your figures with the latest ONS release: Winter mortality in England and Wales: 2021 to 2022 (provisional) and 2020 to 2021 (final) www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/excesswintermortalityinenglandandwales/2021to2022provisionaland2020to2021final#winter-mortality-by-cause-of-deathAn estimated 13,400 more deaths occurred in the winter period (December 2021 to March 2022) compared with the average of the non-winter periods; this was the second-lowest figure since 1950 to 1951 and was affected by the larger number of deaths in the non-winter months (August 2021 to November 2021 and April 2022 to July 2022).But that is a reason to put effort into increasing efficiency and reliability and lowering cost — especially as UK is among the leaders in developing and implementing renewable technologies, from which it could actually be making money by 2050. Meanwhile, I don't see that spending the equivalent of £4.25 per person per year on development as expensive or wasted. Also, I don't see that the UK is being taken in by some international hoax. Looking at the efforts being made by near neighbours France, Norway, Sweden, etc, and the success in meeting (or approaching) their targets... ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/infographs/energy/bloc-4c.htmlIn that case, if you agree that renewables are currently expensive and unreliable, which is correct, you should be advocating that we continue to generate affordable and reliable electricity from fossil fuels until such a time as renewables become affordable and reliable. I haven't heard of any shortages of renewable energy. I would think that if there were shortages that would be the time to start complaining about it being unreliable. All energy is expensive, AFAIA UK renewable energy is sold at market price, that's why it is expensive. We should also remember that Gas in Britain is privately owned and thanks to privatisation the owners can sell their gas to the highest bidder and no one can stop them. Low carbon and green energy provides thousands of jobs. __"n the first months of 2020 Britain relied on renewable energy like never before. The power generated by clean energy projects eclipsed fossil fuels for the first time ever, making up almost half the electricity used to keep the lights on. www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/19/how-renewable-energy-could-power-britains-economic-recovery
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Post by sheepy on Feb 21, 2023 8:43:49 GMT
Low carbon and green energy provides thousands of jobs. Which compared with fossil fuels is a tiny amount.
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Post by Toreador on Feb 21, 2023 10:26:16 GMT
In that case, if you agree that renewables are currently expensive and unreliable, which is correct, you should be advocating that we continue to generate affordable and reliable electricity from fossil fuels until such a time as renewables become affordable and reliable. I haven't heard of any shortages of renewable energy. I would think that if there were shortages that would be the time to start complaining about it being unreliable. All energy is expensive, AFAIA UK renewable energy is sold at market price, that's why it is expensive.We should also remember that Gas in Britain is privately owned and thanks to privatisation the owners can sell their gas to the highest bidder and no one can stop them. Low carbon and green energy provides thousands of jobs. __"n the first months of 2020 Britain relied on renewable energy like never before. The power generated by clean energy projects eclipsed fossil fuels for the first time ever, making up almost half the electricity used to keep the lights on. www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/19/how-renewable-energy-could-power-britains-economic-recoveryIt's sold at an inflated price due to all energy costs being put into one pot. I explained this only a few days ago following the abject failure of the MP who asked Truss to explain this but refused to answer my question.
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