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Post by buccaneer on Mar 4, 2023 23:34:57 GMT
I just listened to a politician from Northern Ireland on Talk TV who summed up the so called Windsor Framework quite nicely. He said, in a nutshell; the Windsor Framework keeps NI in the EU single market and under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. He went on to say that Sunak has made a very big deal out of the Stormont Brake, yet the EU say it may only be used in very exceptional circumstances, and who decides what very exceptional circumstances are? He also said something that was quite telling and thus far no one I've heard has mentioned this. He said the Windsor Framework was designed to look good, to get people on board without making any real changes to the protocol and that's because the Withdrawal Agreement specifically states that any future negotiations must not fundamentally change the terms of the protocol which is a binding part of the withdrawal agreement. Essentially, the EU futureproofed the protocol by ensuring the UK could never take Northern Ireland out of the jurisdiction the ECJ or the EU single market. In short, the Windsor Framework is a complete smokescreen. And Sunak knows it. As Catherine McBride stated: "The UK is willing to defend Ukraine’s borders so why won’t it defend its own?" "For Sunak, the EU, and the US to demand that Russia respect Ukraine’s borders while they openly disrespect the UK’s borders takes some gall." |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 4, 2023 23:48:20 GMT
I just listened to a politician from Northern Ireland on Talk TV who summed up the so called Windsor Framework quite nicely. He said, in a nutshell; the Windsor Framework keeps NI in the EU single market and under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. He went on to say that Sunak has made a very big deal out of the Stormont Brake, yet the EU say it may only be used in very exceptional circumstances, and who decides what very exceptional circumstances are? He also said something that was quite telling and thus far no one I've heard has mentioned this. He said the Windsor Framework was designed to look good, to get people on board without making any real changes to the protocol and that's because the Withdrawal Agreement specifically states that any future negotiations must not fundamentally change the terms of the protocol which is a binding part of the withdrawal agreement. Essentially, the EU futureproofed the protocol by ensuring the UK could never take Northern Ireland out of the jurisdiction the ECJ or the EU single market. In short, the Windsor Framework is a complete smokescreen. And Sunak knows it. As Catherine McBride stated: "The UK is willing to defend Ukraine’s borders so why won’t it defend its own?" "For Sunak, the EU, and the US to demand that Russia respect Ukraine’s borders while they openly disrespect the UK’s borders takes some gall." I absolutely agree, it's infuriating. The problem is, the country has always traditionally been Eurosceptic, ever since the days of Heath we as a country have been Eurosceptic and Heath knew it which is why he lied when he signed us up to the EEC and is why Major lied when he signed us up to the EU. Yes there's lots more but that's in a nutshell. The 'establishment' is pro EU, it always has been. The biggest surprise in my life is the fact that we have actually been allowed to leave. Or have we... |
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Post by bancroft on Mar 5, 2023 9:29:58 GMT
There are a number of factors to the Pro-EU faction,
1. The ideological belief we are all Europeans before being British.
2. Those in positions of power want their second homes in Europe, a better climate and 'nicer natives'.
3. The corrupting influence of business that wants a slice of the European market to make more profit and they will use money to
shout louder.
As most Brits would say if it was just about buying wine and selling Financial services what is not to like, yet the EU project is to make a political empire and recondition it society by stealth.
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Post by thomas on Mar 5, 2023 10:55:25 GMT
I just listened to a politician from Northern Ireland on Talk TV who summed up the so called Windsor Framework quite nicely. He said, in a nutshell; the Windsor Framework keeps NI in the EU single market and under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. He went on to say that Sunak has made a very big deal out of the Stormont Brake, yet the EU say it may only be used in very exceptional circumstances, and who decides what very exceptional circumstances are? He also said something that was quite telling and thus far no one I've heard has mentioned this. He said the Windsor Framework was designed to look good, to get people on board without making any real changes to the protocol and that's because the Withdrawal Agreement specifically states that any future negotiations must not fundamentally change the terms of the protocol which is a binding part of the withdrawal agreement. Essentially, the EU futureproofed the protocol by ensuring the UK could never take Northern Ireland out of the jurisdiction the ECJ or the EU single market. In short, the Windsor Framework is a complete smokescreen. And Sunak knows it. Totally agree with your post red. I have been trying to tell pacifico now for days that british citizens in northern ireland are european citizens , with the right to have european passports , living under european courts , unlike the rest of the uk.
The protocol , and rishis the remainers revised deckchair rearranging of the protocol , which upholds the GFA as we all know apart from pacifico , reemphasises the fact northern ireland has been annexed by the EU.
I dont know why or how anyone can deny this. Whatever interpretation you can give of northern irelands position , it certainly hasnt got brexit , merely rishis brexit in name only.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 5, 2023 11:46:35 GMT
The protocol , and rishis the remainers revised deckchair rearranging of the protocol , which upholds the GFA as we all know apart from pacifico
I hate to point out small technicalities, but strand one of the GFA is currently suspended due the NI protocol..  |
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Post by thomas on Mar 5, 2023 12:05:22 GMT
The protocol , and rishis the remainers revised deckchair rearranging of the protocol , which upholds the GFA as we all know apart from pacifico
I hate to point out small technicalities, but strand one of the GFA is currently suspended due the NI protocol.. Meanwhile the british citizens f the 6 county part of the uk continue to hold european citizenship , european passports , have fom with the eu and live under european courts , which rishi the remainers deck chair arranging endorses like johnsons earlier effort.
When keir starmer gets into power , and tells everyone that the ruk is going to have the same BRINO as northern ireland has , im going to laugh like fuck and remind you of your poor attempts at sophistry while trying to defend rishi the remainers protocol sellout .
If its that great a brexit deal , then there should be no problem the rest of the uk getting it as well pacifico.  |
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Post by thomas on Mar 5, 2023 12:26:03 GMT
The protocol , and rishis the remainers revised deckchair rearranging of the protocol , which upholds the GFA as we all know apart from pacifico
I hate to point out small technicalities, but strand one of the GFA is currently suspended due the NI protocol.. Strand one of the GFA is about internal governance and structure of northern ireland , and the assembly is currently suspended as we all know because...
1. Unionism lost its majority in 2017 for the first time in a century
2. Unionism refuses to serve under a sinn fein first minister
All that aside , the protocol is being enforced over the heads of stormont and unionist crying by both the british and europeans.
In short , despite no devolved assembly , northern ireland remains european and in the EU.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 5, 2023 17:44:35 GMT
I hate to point out small technicalities, but strand one of the GFA is currently suspended due the NI protocol.. Strand one of the GFA is about internal governance and structure of northern ireland , and the assembly is currently suspended as we all know because...
1. Unionism lost its majority in 2017 for the first time in a century
2. Unionism refuses to serve under a sinn fein first minister
All that aside , the protocol is being enforced over the heads of stormont and unionist crying by both the british and europeans.
In short , despite no devolved assembly , northern ireland remains european and in the EU.
As I said - your claim that the Protocol upholds the GFA is good for a laugh, but nothing else. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 5, 2023 17:57:35 GMT
Strand one of the GFA is about internal governance and structure of northern ireland , and the assembly is currently suspended as we all know because...
1. Unionism lost its majority in 2017 for the first time in a century
2. Unionism refuses to serve under a sinn fein first minister
All that aside , the protocol is being enforced over the heads of stormont and unionist crying by both the british and europeans.
In short , despite no devolved assembly , northern ireland remains european and in the EU.
As I said - your claim that the Protocol upholds the GFA is good for a laugh, but nothing else. better tell your prime minister mate....
“The prime minister did refer to that anniversary next year and ensuring that we get a negotiated settlement that protects the Good Friday agreement by then,” Sunak’s press secretary said Wednesday.
With permission, Mr Speaker,
I’d like to make a Statement on the Northern Ireland Protocol.
After weeks of negotiations, today we have made a decisive breakthrough.
By achieving all this, it preserves the delicate balance inherent in the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement.
mean you are that desperate to point score and deflect you are even calling your own tory party prime minister a liar when he says his deal protects the GFA.
The only people laughing mate are the world watching the tory party capitulate and its supporters using weasel words ......
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 5, 2023 18:11:27 GMT
As I said - your claim that the Protocol upholds the GFA is good for a laugh, but nothing else. better tell your prime minister mate....
“The prime minister did refer to that anniversary next year and ensuring that we get a negotiated settlement that protects the Good Friday agreement by then,” Sunak’s press secretary said Wednesday.
With permission, Mr Speaker,
I’d like to make a Statement on the Northern Ireland Protocol.
After weeks of negotiations, today we have made a decisive breakthrough.
By achieving all this, it preserves the delicate balance inherent in the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement.
mean you are that desperate to point score and deflect you are even calling your own tory party prime minister a liar when he says his deal protects the GFA.
The only people laughing mate are the world watching the tory party capitulate and its supporters using weasel words ......
You seem to have this quaint idea that I am a spokesperson for the Conservative Party.. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 6, 2023 7:40:37 GMT
better tell your prime minister mate....
“The prime minister did refer to that anniversary next year and ensuring that we get a negotiated settlement that protects the Good Friday agreement by then,” Sunak’s press secretary said Wednesday.
With permission, Mr Speaker,
I’d like to make a Statement on the Northern Ireland Protocol.
After weeks of negotiations, today we have made a decisive breakthrough.
By achieving all this, it preserves the delicate balance inherent in the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement.
mean you are that desperate to point score and deflect you are even calling your own tory party prime minister a liar when he says his deal protects the GFA.
The only people laughing mate are the world watching the tory party capitulate and its supporters using weasel words ......
You seem to have this quaint idea that I am a spokesperson for the Conservative Party.. Stop defending them then.
Sorry, but this does not restore British sovereignty
So, does the framework resolve the protocol’s economic separation of Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK and restore our sovereignty over every inch of our territory, from Brixton to Birmingham to Belfast? No. Not a bit of it. It provides a technical fix to some of the more onerous customs barriers erected between GB and NI, but it does not resolve the fundamental questions raised by Brexit. Namely, who rules? Us or them? Are we sovereign or not?
But a closer look at the detail of these measures swiftly confirms that they’re not as sovereignty-safeguarding as Sunak would have us believe. In many ways, the EU’s document about the Windsor Framework is more revealing than the UK’s. Not known for being coy, the EU cannot help but make clear that, even with this framework, it will retain a scary amount of authority over Northern Irish affairs. And, by extension, UK affairs.
All of this raises a huge question – why are any EU-devised laws, the laws of a foreign power, being imposed in a part of the United Kingdom, when the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU? That’s the rub. Northern Ireland will still be treated differently to the rest of the UK. It will still be subject to EU oversight in a way that grates against every principle of sovereignty and democracy.
Yet another of the many many articles rubbishing sunaks sell out BRINO deal for northern ireland , and confirming once again the substance behind the spin of the tory government.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 6, 2023 8:11:16 GMT
LOL - I dont believe it was ever designed to do that.. If you want to completely restore sovereignty then No-Deal was the way to go - but that was blocked by the SNP among others. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 6, 2023 8:29:39 GMT
LOL - I dont believe it was ever designed to do that.. If you want to completely restore sovereignty then No-Deal was the way to go - but that was blocked by the SNP among others. Brexit wasnt about restoring british soveriegnty ? Who knew? 7 years on and tory brexiters have come full circle and went into denial once more.
Thats right. The snp are a remian supporting party as you know who represent a country that voted remain.
Unlike the tories who jump ship when it suits , and then jump back under rishi and sell northern ireland down the river while kidding on northern ireland has brexit.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 6, 2023 11:43:20 GMT
LOL - I dont believe it was ever designed to do that.. If you want to completely restore sovereignty then No-Deal was the way to go - but that was blocked by the SNP among others. Brexit wasnt about restoring british soveriegnty Who knew? 7 years on and tory brexiters have come full circle and went into denial once more. Oh sorry - you have jumped back to talking about Brexit and not the protocol. With regards to Brexit the ambitions for that were the same as those held by supporters of Scottish independence - who knew?.. So you blocked the UK from fully regaining sovereignty and now you are complaining that sovereignty has not been fully regained.. ..how bizarre. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 6, 2023 11:53:15 GMT
Brexit wasnt about restoring british soveriegnty Who knew? 7 years on and tory brexiters have come full circle and went into denial once more. Oh sorry - you have jumped back to talking about Brexit and not the protocol. whats the problem? Brexit is not the protocol , and the protocol is not brexit.
Thats the point as i keep repeating. Brexit was a uk vote , and northern ireland didnt get brexit.
If you are saying they did get brexit , then why are tory brexiters so opposed to a uk wide protocol type deal?
semantic arguments on a postcard please from tory brexiter hq.
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