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Post by jonksy on Jan 24, 2023 22:35:12 GMT
FYI, it is not within the police's power to give anyone a criminal record. You don't get a criminal record by going to a police station. Having your fingerprints or details on any police database does not mean you have a criminal record. FYI, you get a criminal record by being convicted by a court of a criminal offense. Sunak won't have a criminal record if he was issued a FPN, because his case never went to court. Even had he gone to court I think that particular offence is not classed as a criminal offence. Drink driving is and I think there are other driving cases that might attract a criminal record. I am pretty sure drink driving autamatically incurs a criminal record. I am sure others will call it out if I am wrong. |
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Post by Toreador on Jan 24, 2023 22:38:54 GMT
Even had he gone to court I think that particular offence is not classed as a criminal offence. Drink driving is and I think there are other driving cases that might attract a criminal record. I am sure others will call it out if I am wrong.It ceretainly does, been there, got the record. That was just over fifty years ago and was a stitch up. |
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Post by Tinculin on Jan 25, 2023 8:25:12 GMT
Of course drink driving is a criminal offense and if convicted by a court you’ll have a criminal record.
Police will arrest you for drunk driving then if you plead or are found guilty by a court, it is the court who will impose any driving ban or other punishment and that will then be added onto your criminal record.
I’m not sure what this has to do with Sunak since he wasn’t charged with drink driving but not using a seatbelt?
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Post by Handyman on Jan 25, 2023 8:40:16 GMT
Tinculin I disagree Not Wearing a Seat Belt is not a Criminal Offence , it is an Offence under Motor Vehicles (Wearing of Seatbelts) Regulations 1993: if you do go to Court and the Court find you guilty still no Criminal Record finding of Guilt yes The only way you get a Criminal Record is if you are arrested and taken to a Police Station , you are automatically fingerprinted , photographed and DNA taken that information is then placed on the Police National Computer. FYI, it is not within the police's power to give anyone a criminal record. You don't get a criminal record by going to a police station. Having your fingerprints or details on any police database does not mean you have a criminal record. FYI, you get a criminal record by being convicted by a court of a criminal offense. Sunak won't have a criminal record if he was issued a FPN, because his case never went to court. FYI Sunak will not get a Criminal Record as the Offence he committed is not a Recordable Criminal Offence full stop, it is dealt with by a Fixed Penalty Notice, same as a Parking or Speeding Offence or Breeching Covid Restrictions all none recordable Offences full stop Even if you go to Court and contest the FPN the only record kept is by the Court , in relation to a speeding offence that you admit via post or found guilty at Court the only record kept will be on the Courts Record and also placed on your Driving Licence Record held by the DVLA, not the Criminal Records Bureau, in other words you do not have a Criminal Record you have committed and Offence but not a Recordable Criminal Offence. As I stated before if you are arrested for a Criminal Offence and taken to a Police Station you are fingerprinted, photographed, and your DNA is taken, that is then sent by the Police to the Criminal Records Department and a Criminal Record is created a unique number to you, even if you end up in Court and found not guilty that information is still held by the CRB, if you already have a Criminal Record it added to your file and stays on your Criminal Record even if found not guilty at the end of the day. |
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Post by Handyman on Jan 25, 2023 8:49:23 GMT
Even had he gone to court I think that particular offence is not classed as a criminal offence. Drink driving is and I think there are other driving cases that might attract a criminal record. I am pretty sure drink driving autamatically incurs a criminal record. I am sure others will call it out if I am wrong. Toreador you are correct no seat belt is not a recordable criminal offence , an offence yes but not a recordable criminal offence For Drink Driving or Driving under the influence of Drugs they are both Arrestable Offences , you are arrested in order to be tested at the Police Station if over the limit you are fingerprinted, photographed, DNA taken and charged all that info is sent to the Criminal Record Bureau to be placed on their records |
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Post by Tinculin on Jan 25, 2023 10:20:46 GMT
FYI, it is not within the police's power to give anyone a criminal record. You don't get a criminal record by going to a police station. Having your fingerprints or details on any police database does not mean you have a criminal record. FYI, you get a criminal record by being convicted by a court of a criminal offense. Sunak won't have a criminal record if he was issued a FPN, because his case never went to court. FYI Sunak will not get a Criminal Record as the Offence he committed is not a Recordable Criminal Offence full stop, it is dealt with by a Fixed Penalty Notice, same as a Parking or Speeding Offence or Breeching Covid Restrictions all none recordable Offences full stop Even if you go to Court and contest the FPN the only record kept is by the Court , in relation to a speeding offence that you admit via post or found guilty at Court the only record kept will be on the Courts Record and also placed on your Driving Licence Record held by the DVLA, not the Criminal Records Bureau, in other words you do not have a Criminal Record you have committed and Offence but not a Recordable Criminal Offence. As I stated before if you are arrested for a Criminal Offence and taken to a Police Station you are fingerprinted, photographed, and your DNA is taken, that is then sent by the Police to the Criminal Records Department and a Criminal Record is created a unique number to you, even if you end up in Court and found not guilty that information is still held by the CRB, if you already have a Criminal Record it added to your file and stays on your Criminal Record even if found not guilty at the end of the day. Sunak was discovered not wearing a seatbelt, he won't get a criminal record. I'm unsure what drink driving (or speeding), has to do with this..... but, with regards to a criminal record and the CRB, in general: If you're arrested of a crime, data that the police record maybe entered into file (your name, photo's etc), because it's evidence. - However, until you are charged, it's not within the power of Police to enforce any kind of punitive action. That is what courts do. - Police can issue you with a FPN, they can arrest and charge you with speeding, drink driving or anything else, but they have no power to determine guilt and certainly no power to enforce any kind of punitive action in the form of payment, custodial sentences or anything else upon an individual. Following your arrest, fingerprints or a photo is going to be kept on record along with other evidence, because as mentioned above, until you are found guilty or acquitted, this is evidence which will be used against you in any upcoming court hearing. In a situation where you are acquitted by a court, one of two things will happen. 1) This information may be automatically deleted (depending on what it was and is subject to a whole process within the CRB). 2) It may remain on file. If it remains on file it must indicate that you were acquitted and is not under /normal/ circumstances available either as part of a general or enhanced CRB checks. - Afaik, such data is called 'police intelligence' and to disclose that information requires the approval of a very senior police officer. Furthermore, you may at any time request that this data be deleted. Sometimes is is possible that this request be declined and is based on what the data is, and probably previous criminal convictions. However if you have never been found guilty of a crime, it is very possible that this would be expunged completely, but there are also circumstances where this maybe refused. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 25, 2023 10:33:18 GMT
In Wales evidence in the form of DNA and Fingerprints taken from victims and witnesses ‘for the purpose of exclusion’ remains on the main police national computer linked to the case records with **NO** indication the evidence collected was not collected for advancement of criminal investigations.
This I know to be the case as my DNA and Prints were taken ‘for exclusion purposes’ when I quite strenuously attempted to beat the crap out of the front door of my daughters neighbours maisonette, believing at the time she was a victim of smoke inhalation or worse as a result of the fire on that floor of the building she was known to be trapped in
I had no way of knowing she had in fact been raped and butchered and the fire was in fact set by her murdering rapist to try to destroy the evidence of his crime
I know the records exist without any comment to the nature of why they are there because a former colleague from my defence weaponry days, who went to work for South Wales Police’s IT dept told me.
He is now beyond repercussions for his breach of security this side of Armageddon anyway having died of bone cancer during the pox epidemic
I demanded my records be removed under Cleggs Freedom of Information Bill as soon as it received royal assent and received a written refusal from the then Chief Constable citing ‘it is the policy of the force to ignore the provisions of this legislation. We choose to retain this information forever’. I presume my elder daughters prints and DNA, taken ‘for the same reason’ as she was trying to beat the door open when I got there also remain on file.
It would be interesting to see if any of the local loony left who fair play to them also tried to enter the property were also sampled and whether their data has also been retained, or they only retain such for those of the right wing persuasion…..
Either way the fact is their actions have guaranteed that if I ever see a copper in trouble, particularly one with a lot of braid and epaulettes on his uniform, I will probably stand and laugh rather than help. Being treated like a fucking criminal when you went to try and help tends to have that effect on people.
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Post by Tinculin on Jan 25, 2023 10:47:28 GMT
That's absolutely terrible John and words typed here seem completely insufficient to express condolences for what you must have gone through, my deepest sympathies.
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Post by Toreador on Jan 25, 2023 10:54:49 GMT
Of course drink driving is a criminal offense and if convicted by a court you’ll have a criminal record. Police will arrest you for drunk driving then if you plead or are found guilty by a court, it is the court who will impose any driving ban or other punishment and that will then be added onto your criminal record. I’m not sure what this has to do with Sunak since he wasn’t charged with drink driving but not using a seatbelt? Because you said this: "Sunak won't have a criminal record if he was issued a FPN, because his case never went to court." Criminal record is nothing to do with going to court. |
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Post by Tinculin on Jan 25, 2023 11:21:13 GMT
Of course drink driving is a criminal offense and if convicted by a court you’ll have a criminal record. Police will arrest you for drunk driving then if you plead or are found guilty by a court, it is the court who will impose any driving ban or other punishment and that will then be added onto your criminal record. I’m not sure what this has to do with Sunak since he wasn’t charged with drink driving but not using a seatbelt? Because you said this: "Sunak won't have a criminal record if he was issued a FPN, because his case never went to court." Criminal record is nothing to do with going to court. If a court were to convict you because of a FPN, then it could show on your criminal record. As Sunak did not goto court, it is correct that he won't get a criminal record. I'm not sure what there is to debate about this - this is public information right here: "Fixed penalty notices (FPN) and penalty charge notices (PCN) are fines for minor driving offences. They will not appear on your criminal record unless a court gives you a conviction because of one." www.gov.uk/tell-employer-or-college-about-criminal-record/driving-convictions#:~:text=Fixed%20penalty%20notices%20(FPN)%20and,a%20conviction%20because%20of%20one. |
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Post by Handyman on Jan 25, 2023 12:55:48 GMT
FYI Sunak will not get a Criminal Record as the Offence he committed is not a Recordable Criminal Offence full stop, it is dealt with by a Fixed Penalty Notice, same as a Parking or Speeding Offence or Breeching Covid Restrictions all none recordable Offences full stop Even if you go to Court and contest the FPN the only record kept is by the Court , in relation to a speeding offence that you admit via post or found guilty at Court the only record kept will be on the Courts Record and also placed on your Driving Licence Record held by the DVLA, not the Criminal Records Bureau, in other words you do not have a Criminal Record you have committed and Offence but not a Recordable Criminal Offence. As I stated before if you are arrested for a Criminal Offence and taken to a Police Station you are fingerprinted, photographed, and your DNA is taken, that is then sent by the Police to the Criminal Records Department and a Criminal Record is created a unique number to you, even if you end up in Court and found not guilty that information is still held by the CRB, if you already have a Criminal Record it added to your file and stays on your Criminal Record even if found not guilty at the end of the day. Sunak was discovered not wearing a seatbelt, he won't get a criminal record. I'm unsure what drink driving (or speeding), has to do with this..... but, with regards to a criminal record and the CRB, in general: If you're arrested of a crime, data that the police record maybe entered into file (your name, photo's etc), because it's evidence. - However, until you are charged, it's not within the power of Police to enforce any kind of punitive action. That is what courts do. - Police can issue you with a FPN, they can arrest and charge you with speeding, drink driving or anything else, but they have no power to determine guilt and certainly no power to enforce any kind of punitive action in the form of payment, custodial sentences or anything else upon an individual. Following your arrest, fingerprints or a photo is going to be kept on record along with other evidence, because as mentioned above, until you are found guilty or acquitted, this is evidence which will be used against you in any upcoming court hearing. In a situation where you are acquitted by a court, one of two things will happen. 1) This information may be automatically deleted (depending on what it was and is subject to a whole process within the CRB). 2) It may remain on file. If it remains on file it must indicate that you were acquitted and is not under /normal/ circumstances available either as part of a general or enhanced CRB checks. - Afaik, such data is called 'police intelligence' and to disclose that information requires the approval of a very senior police officer. Furthermore, you may at any time request that this data be deleted. Sometimes is is possible that this request be declined and is based on what the data is, and probably previous criminal convictions. However if you have never been found guilty of a crime, it is very possible that this would be expunged completely, but there are also circumstances where this maybe refused. Not wishing to go round in circles , correct Sunak will not get a Criminal Record because FPN's deal with Offences that are not Recordable Criminal Offences . You are correct if arrested for a Criminal Offence , yes as I stated earlier aromatically fingerprinted, photographed and DNA taken, that is to record your identity it can form part of the evidence against you , such as your prints or DNA found at the scene of the crime you have been arrest for , it will also be run through the DNA databank that may link to unsolved crimes where DNA has been recovered but the DNA has not matched up to anyone already on the databank. If you already have a Criminal Record and given a false name it will link you to your Criminal Record already held by the CRB If you have never been convicted before and are found not guilty the fact your were acquitted will be placed on your file . as I understand it you can ask for your Criminal Record to be removed , but they may refuse as far as I am aware your DNA will stay of file in the DNA Databank which the Police do not have access to PS, Drink/Drug Driving are both arrestable Recordable Criminal Offences |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 25, 2023 13:18:08 GMT
Sunak has been issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice for not wearing a seatbelt by Lancashire Police. That should keep some happy for several days, floggings to good for him , sack him drag him off to the Tower  Will he be appearing before the Long Bailey? |
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