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Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 9:09:13 GMT
That’s probably where you went wrong . Remainers have been whining for years that leavers claimed the UK would still trade freely with the EU after leaving . How did you miss that ? Can we have SOME REMAINERS, it is clear that not all remainers have been whining for years. If some remainers post genuine concerns, that is not whining. Your broad brush approach is part true and is part a place for over-defensive Leavers to hide. You have a point . Leavers do not need to hide . Leavers won the referendum . |
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2023 9:09:53 GMT
From the conversations I have had across four discussion groups, those who wanted to leave promised a free trade agreement with the EU and USA, far less paperwork in both cases and the ease of making our own trade agreements with anyone we wanted. I am still waiting. Perhaaps you and those in your discussion groups need to contact the EU and the US, perhaps the cause lies there. In which case, those who wanted to leave and promised the free trade agreements, got it wrong. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2023 9:13:25 GMT
Can we have SOME REMAINERS, it is clear that not all remainers have been whining for years. If some remainers post genuine concerns, that is not whining. Your broad brush approach is part true and is part a place for over-defensive Leavers to hide. You have a point . Leavers do not need to hide . Leavers won the referendum . That doesn't mean there are no over defensive Leavers posting. I would suggest that Squeezy is one. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 9:14:10 GMT
Perhaaps you and those in your discussion groups need to contact the EU and the US, perhaps the cause lies there. In which case, those who wanted to leave and promised the free trade agreements, got it wrong. To a point yes. I thought that pragmatism would win the day but it seems that the EU and US wanted to punish the UK for daring to leave the fold . |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 20, 2023 9:14:36 GMT
I have never thought anything else. Like Starmer I disagreed with the result but rejecting democracy, even if it was a huge mistake, is worse. So we try to find the flakes of good in the mudslide. Now how about taking up my offer of pointing out what wonderful things have been achieved by the UK by leaving. Cheaper food? Moggie said shoes would be cheaper. The beaurocracy would be far less Other EU countries would stand in line to leave. Germany's car industry would collapse. The UK fishing fleets would once again control the fish in its own waters. Wages would skyrocket because the foreigners would be thrown out. Only the rich superintelligent professionals would be allowed in. Students and young people would do all the dirty jobs because it didn't do any harm to the last generation. Sovereignty hasn't protected us from EU regulation or being any more respected in NATO or scientific development. In fact our communications satellite delivery systems blow up. Our health system is pitied by other comparable countries. So now you tell me how Brexit has made this country better.
Or perhaps you could tell us how embracing democracy has made it worse?
Unemployment down. GDP up. Stock market up. The lowest paid have seen a marked improvement in pay and conditions.
Inflation - much the same as the EU. Covid fallout - much the same as the EU. Energy crisis fallout - much the same as the EU.
QED last week, our economy is more affected by world affairs that it is by the machinations of the EU.
For the vast majority, there's no discernable difference in or out. So where's this "Mudslide" disaster of yours? You are selectively talking about tiny changes in small amounts of time. The lowest paid in state industry and services are going on strike one after the other because the Brexit government which is in place because leavers won a vote I can hardly call democratic unless you accept lies and false promises as part of the process, and promised higher wages...and now refuses to discuss the subject! So tell me how Brexit helped the part of the low paid economy when it was the very leavers wjo are now ministers ministers who promised higher wages! Economies are always affected by world affairs. Government is about hedging against the worst and being prudent in the good times. Not tossing all your cards up in the air and hope they land right side up. So far, Brexit hasn't even begun to move towards delivering any of those promises. It's debt to GDP ratio is horrific and interest rates are going up. The problem is how Brexit Britain is going to handle that as the rest of the prosperous west, already ahead in growth and development, is going to keep up. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 9:16:15 GMT
You have a point . Leavers do not need to hide . Leavers won the referendum . That doesn't mean there are no over defensive Leavers posting. I would suggest that Squeezy is one. I’m not a mind reader. Maybe he is just content with how things are going and thinks the remainers tend to protest too much . |
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Post by buccaneer on Jan 20, 2023 9:16:19 GMT
I've given you a link answering your question and it was pretty self-explanatory and specific. Don't wriggle. Just accept that he was trying to 'hold back progress on Brexit'. You did just wriggle out of it. You claim you have proof but refuse to pin point it. Sounds very vague to me. Didn't your post refer to something over two years ago? It was you who said this: Just for clarification, can you give an example where "Starmer/Davy/Sturgeon" actually held back progress on Brexit?I gave you link as an example. That, as I said is self-explanatory. You now are asking about timelines, why is that? As it wasn't mentioned in your original question when you asked for an example. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 20, 2023 9:24:36 GMT
Not at all. They are just wondering why they should wait a generation to reinvent the wheel. Not reinvent it , just where we ride it . Well so far it looks like your new wheel is going slower than the old one and is badly damaged on the Northern Ireland side. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 20, 2023 9:25:51 GMT
Can we have SOME REMAINERS, it is clear that not all remainers have been whining for years. If some remainers post genuine concerns, that is not whining. Your broad brush approach is part true and is part a place for over-defensive Leavers to hide. You have a point . Leavers do not need to hide . Leavers won the referendum . I am still waiting to see what they won for the country. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2023 9:28:44 GMT
That doesn't mean there are no over defensive Leavers posting. I would suggest that Squeezy is one. I’m not a mind reader. Maybe he is just content with how things are going and thinks the remainers tend to protest too much . You don't have to be a mind reader, just read his posts. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 9:30:13 GMT
Not reinvent it , just where we ride it . Well so far it looks like your new wheel is going slower than the old one and is badly damaged on the Northern Ireland side. ThevUK will find common ground with the EU on that matter and things will run more smoothly. It’s in the best interest for everyone. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2023 9:32:53 GMT
You did just wriggle out of it. You claim you have proof but refuse to pin point it. Sounds very vague to me. Didn't your post refer to something over two years ago? It was you who said this: Just for clarification, can you give an example where "Starmer/Davy/Sturgeon" actually held back progress on Brexit?I gave you link as an example. That, as I said is self-explanatory. You now are asking about timelines, why is that? As it wasn't mentioned in your original question when you asked for an example. I didn't expect an exercise on working my way through opinions, I expected a clear straight forward example which you have failed to provide. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 9:33:18 GMT
I’m not a mind reader. Maybe he is just content with how things are going and thinks the remainers tend to protest too much . You don't have to be a mind reader, just read his posts. I’ve read his posts . Your opinion is that he is being defensive. I’m not a mind reader so I have proffered a reason where you might be mistaken . |
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2023 9:34:16 GMT
Well so far it looks like your new wheel is going slower than the old one and is badly damaged on the Northern Ireland side. ThevUK will find common ground with the EU on that matter and things will run more smoothly. It’s in the best interest for everyone. Yes I understood and agreed with that part. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 20, 2023 9:35:20 GMT
From the conversations I have had across four discussion groups, those who wanted to leave promised a free trade agreement with the EU and USA, far less paperwork in both cases and the ease of making our own trade agreements with anyone we wanted. I am still waiting. Millions of people wanted to leave . Did they all promise this? People didn't promise. Politicians did. People either believed them and repeated the lies or not. Let's not forget that tens of millions of people didn't believe the lies and as more and more evidence comes to light, millions more now realise they had been fooled and regret their choice. But it is too late. Instead of repeating ad nauseum conversations that after 6 years old, why don't leavers embrace their triumph and discuss the gleaming new opportunities and bright new world they voted for? |
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